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{\pntxtb (}{\pntxta )}}{\*\pnseclvl9\pnlcrm\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang {\pntxtb (}{\pntxta )}}\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri0\widctlpar\wrapdefault\aspalpha\aspnum\faauto\adjustright\rin0\lin0\itap0\pararsid3023519 \rtlch\fcs1 \af0\afs24\alang1025 
\ltrch\fcs0 \fs24\lang2057\langfe2057\cgrid\langnp2057\langfenp2057 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid3023519\charrsid3023519 Ouch Talk Show #59 \endash  November 2010
\par bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast
\par 
\par Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr
\par 
\par The Ouch Podcast is a download from the Â鶹Éç. For more information, and our terms of use, go to bbc.co.uk/ouch.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab It's Talk Show 59 and so that means it's only 15 shopping days until the international day for persons with disabilities. Oh yes, what a mouthful, if 
\par only they could shorten to one word like Christmas, Thanksgiving or Pride maybe we'd get somewhere. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab When you're ready, Liz, sorry listeners might like to know that Rob Crossan will be joining us later to look back at the month's news. Learny band, 
\par The Fish Police, who are fantastic are with us, and I've got a brand new feature that I want to introduce. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Can't wait. 
\par 
\par [Jingle: From the Â鶹Éç in {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname City}}London{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose} it's the Ouch Talk Show with Mat Fraser and Liz Carr.]
\par 
\par MAT\tab Liz, is it 'coz I is disabled? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab What? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Well I say that in the Ali G style. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh okay but why are you being all street on me, Mat?
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah, no he used to say "Is it 'coz I is black?" 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Although he wasn't black and I am disabled. Now is it 'coz I is disabled? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab But apart from that.
\par 
\par MAT\tab I'm drumming again at the moment as you might not know. I've been drumming again a lot. And I remember the first time I thought is it 'coz I is 
\par disabled I didn't get a job in a band, I did an audition as a drummer. And I drummed okay I thought. But when I left I didn't get the job but I was convinced 
\par it was because I was disabled. It probably actually was 'coz I was basically a rather mediocre drummer and not as good as they needed. But I was convinced, 
\par my first port of paranoid call was "Oh my God it must be because I'm disabled." And I just thought that's probably something that a lot of us listeners, you 
\par and the team may have experienced. Have you got an experience of this? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No as you say that I'm sort of cringing a bit because I'm thinking I just started a new office based job as well as this. And it's the first time 
\par I've been working in a non disability related organisation for years and years and years. And within my first week the rest of the team went to the pub. 
\par They're a bunch of lads and they were like, "Right, so so and so are you coming, are you coming" and nobody asked me and I'm like it's because I'm a crip, 
\par it's because I'm a crip. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And it wasn't, it was probably because you were the new girl wasn't it? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Well you know it could have been. I mean maybe if I was younger and more conventionally attractive and de, de, de, de, da maybe then, maybe then. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hold on, rewind two other paranoias there. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No. Absolutely that's it. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Younger and more conventionally attractive. Liz, you're you, you're wonderfully attractive...
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab ... you're magnetic. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab But you know what I mean? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You wouldn't want to have Liz, Carr at the drinks? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah but you know what I mean. I mean default position I think if you don't get something that you want, whether it's a job or asked out or whatever 
\par my default position is that I think ah maybe it's because I'm a crip. Maybe it's because I'm disabled. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Forget about turn some dating. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh well that's always... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You know what I mean? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab That must be a terrible one. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I mean you've got that, then you've to whether it's age or whether it's gender or sexuality or where you're from. I mean God all these things that 
\par you put on it. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And it can bring you down can't it? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Definitely. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I mean I know we're meant to be all light-hearted whey-hey, and we are, okay we are light hearted about all the stuff that other think is serious. 
\par But actually when you get a knock back like that... I've been turned away at a club more than once. I know that somebody quite close to our hearts who works 
\par with us who shall remain nameless but is the producer of the show... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah Damon yeah that's right. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab ... was once turned down... wasn't allowed into a club. It was quite soon after he'd lost his sight I believe and that was like, "Oh great is that 
\par what life's going to be" and it put him into bed for four days. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah no I think it does because it knocks you for six. And I think there's this balance because I think it would be ridiculous to go, "Actually it 
\par has nothing to do with disability." A lot of these things may have a basis in disability but what we do, I think, is we go it's all about that, the total 
\par reason. Or we make it about disability when it's not and I don't know how to get that balance. Do you know what I mean? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah it's difficult isn't it? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I don't know at all. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And also and further to that and I don't want to get too sort of browbeaten, but is that actually a comfort zone? Can you retreat... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab How do you mean? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Well every time you get a knock back for something can you go back to your comfort beating zone of it's because I'm disabled, you see I knew the 
\par whole world was against me because I'm disabled. You see that is unjust. You see I don't actually have to try harder next time or whatever. I'm not saying, 
\par "Get on your bikes" because most people can't ride a bike who are disabled, let's face it. Norman Tebbit if you're still listening, the politician who 
\par famously said it in the '80s, the previous Tory Government. But the point I'm making is, is there an element of that? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is there a safety net in going, "Oh well it's because I'm disabled I'm never going to get that job" or "I'm never going to aspire to have a partner 
\par like that" or whatever it is that you're after. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Well that's a big one isn't it? It's like I'm never going... I'm not worthy because I'm disabled of that partner, of that job, of that dress, of that 
\par shoe. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Or shoes. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I don't think, you know, I do think that of course there's this disability angle because we're disabled people talking about this, but I think pretty 
\par much everybody out there has their own default position whether they go "Oh it's because I was brought up like this." "It's because I didn't go to 
\par university" "It's because I don't earn enough" "It's because my Mum didn't... " do you know what I mean? And I wonder and listeners do, you know, let us know 
\par do you think as disabled people we are more likely to go, "You know what, I didn't get that opportunity because I'm disabled." And of course we are denied 
\par lots of opportunities through discrimination, I'm not denying that, but do you think also we automatically go onto default and go, "Yeah well because I'm 
\par disabled that won't happen for me, and that doesn't happen." Do you think we do that? You know where we are, we're ouch@bbc.co.uk do let us know what you 
\par think about that because I'm intrigued now. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Liz.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab What?
\par 
\par MAT\tab If life gives you lemons MAKE LEMONADE!
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh you see I hate that. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Do you not like that motivational stuff? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Because a lot of my actor friends I moan often, "I haven't got Cracker. I was not in Spooks and it's not fair it's because I'm disabled." And they're 
\par like, "Mat, I'm an actor too" the able-bodied actor friend, "I'm an actor too, you've worked five times in the last two year, shut up because I've had no 
\par jobs in the last two years." And actually I have to admit I probably have got slightly more work because I'm disabled than I would have got if I was non 
\par disabled. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Absolutely. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Because I'm like one of those in the mix not very famous actors that probably only gets the work when they're thinking oh we need... oh what about 
\par that guy with short arms you know what I mean? So I can't always complain because I actually have to say probably in terms of the acting especially that 
\par disability's been part of my success. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Isn't that flattering though when people say stuff like that? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You can always find a negative can't you? It's a skill you've got. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Well you know. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab No it's good. Have there been any, you know your wedding preparations... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Have there been any... have you gone to you know what bride or one of those shops? Have you got any it's 'coz I'm disabled stuff going on there with 
\par the cake or...? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No the favourite one for me is that the majority of time of course they don't think it's me the bride, I mean that's it, it's never I'm never the 
\par bride at all. I'm either the bride's mother... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Are you ever the bridesmaid even? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Not even that, I'm not even allowed there on the day do you know what I mean? So usually that and the funniest is when like you know when we were 
\par trying to find a venue and you'd ring up and say that wheelchair access is really important. Great yes we've got wheelchair access. You turn up and they go, 
\par "Oh we thought it was for your grandma." They certainly don't think. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We've got the one wheelchair space at the back of the mausoleum that you're renting. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Absolutely. So yeah you know a lot of... But I think to say that this whole thing, you know, is it because I'm disabled I think something that has 
\par sort of helped me balance it for me a little bit is that my partner isn't a disabled person and they'll often kick it out of me, not literally don't worry 
\par listeners, and go, "You know actually it's not all about disability, get over yourself" and that's quite healthy. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And further to that, my partner my intended, my fianc\'e9 Julie, is an American. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Ah you see. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Where they don't do self deprecation. Like after shows when people go, "You did well" and I go, "Actually it wasn't very good tonight." She pulls me 
\par to one side and says, "No, say thank you and smile."  
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And she's like, "No it's not because you're disabled, get a grip and even if it is, so what, move on." And I'm like, "Easy for you."
\par 
\par LIZ\tab This is useful, Mat, this is useful because I was thinking so how do we get over that always thinking that it's us and is it because we're disabled, 
\par so how do you get over that. So one way is accept something and go, "Actually no I was good at that" you know take that on the chin. So again, listeners, if 
\par you've got any tips and advice for us and for each other on how to always stop doing that negative,"Oh well because I'm disabled I won't get the job and I 
\par won't de, da..." how do you kick yourself out of it, how do you get out of that kind of mental funk, for want of a better word. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And when have you been at your most confident and egotistical on the other side of the coin? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Well that's true. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab How can crips get that confident, isn't it hard? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Does it take more metal?
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And maybe it's just a British thing because when you do and you get that confidence it's almost like, "Oh they're a bit cocky aren't they?" 
\par 
\par MAT\tab If you have a question to ask us or were patronised half to death yesterday and need to tell someone about it, well we're here, don't be scared 
\par little one. Email ouch@bbc.co.uk and if we include your contribution in the next show you'll get some lovely Ouch merchandise. Ouch@bbc.co.uk. And once again 
\par we have the lovely Rob Crossan with us to tell us a bit about the news recently. You're looking different, Rob, what is it? 
\par 
\par ROB\tab It's the distressed farmer look. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I know he's got a lovely cardigan, brown cardigan...
\par 
\par LIZ\tab It's lovely.
\par 
\par MAT\tab ... and a kind of a flat cap. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And a checked shirt. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab So yeah it's kind of like the new breed of 21st Century farmers who have never been near a farm and are scared of manure that's the look I'm going 
\par for. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Nice. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Next week you'll be bringing in a pitch fork. I look forward to that. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab And a live lamb. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Rob, have you got any moments right when you think is this happening to me because I'm disabled?
\par 
\par ROB\tab Yeah but there's never been any... there was never any real ambiguity to it to me when I was at school in PE I was always picked last for football. 
\par But of course yes exactly it is because I is disabled, there's absolutely no reason why it would be anything else. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab But what about journalistic knockbacks? 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Yeah, no I have had a few from the most surprising of places. The right wing newspapers have always been absolutely lovely, but it's a certain left 
\par wing one that have actually given me the worst case of disability discrimination I've ever come across, which was extraordinary. But it's worked more to my 
\par advantage than it has against me? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Have they, Rob, or you're just assuming that they have because you're disabled?
\par 
\par ROB\tab Oh no, no they did. No they absolutely did. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab This is explicit, okay. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Well I got a place on a traineeship years ago when I first moved to London with Channel 4, and I think there were about 550 people for six places, 
\par and I'm sure that I would have got quite far down the application route anyway I think because I was relatively sure of myself. But I think that the albinism 
\par element may well have twisted it my way because I did cynically used it to my advantage. I asked lots of questions about, "Well as an equal opportunities 
\par employer what's your attitude towards people with albinism?" I deliberately asked those questions in the interview. And I noticed the six of us, it was like 
\par the United Colours of Benetton, the six of us... there was one gay, there was one black, there was one Asian, there was one with dyslexia, there was me the 
\par albino and there was one normal, a normal. So yeah I just thought it was a little bit too coincidental. But anyway it worked I got on the traineeship. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab You got there. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So there's a time to use it. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Use it to your advantage is my advice. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I like that, I like that bit of advice yes. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We've had an email from a guy called Hamilton because last time you were on the show, Rob, you told us about someone who was saddened that you were 
\par unable to eat meat on account of being an albino. Liz, what was the email? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Well he's got this explanation he says "An alternative might be that to the uninformed American ear the British pronunciation albeano, US users say 
\par albino may have confused them okay? Are you going with this logic, Rob, right? When you heard that you were an Albeano, see yeah, they may have naively 
\par assumed that he was no meato possibly. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab But bean and meat don't sound anything alike, I'm sorry to point... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Well I think... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hamilton, it's because you're disabled that you've written such a bad email. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And it is. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab So, Hamilton, if you're considering a job as a scriptwriter on Saturday Night Live then I wouldn't send them this as an example of your material, 
\par come up with something better. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We're teasing you, Hamilton. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab It took me ages to understand that bean and meat they're both four letters long, they've both got consonants at either end but they don't rhyme. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Apart from that no. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Pedantic but true. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab I'm so sorry. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hamilton, however, does go on to say love the Ouch podcast, miss it only under duress and with consternation. So thanks very much for that, Hamilton, 
\par nice to have your support. Rob, you are here actually to facilitate the news stories. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Facilitate? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Facilitate? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Well it was the word consternation it's got me all... 
\par 
\par ROB\tab You've suddenly swallowed a Thesaurus. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I have and that's not easy to say. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab First story, "Too disabled to fly." 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Yeah this is a cracker. It's a long running subject.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Of course. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Which we've been covering this one for years but it just keeps on going. This is a fella called Johnnie Tuitel who's a motivational speaker who has 
\par Cerebral Palsy in the US. And he's a frequent flyer, half a million miles he claims he's flown all around the world, mostly around the States doing his 
\par motivational speaker talks.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab From being inspirational no doubt. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Yeah. And he got thrown off, yeah he got thrown off a US airways flight from Palm Beach to Kansas a couple of weeks ago because the US airways staff 
\par decided that he was just that little bit too disabled to fly. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Wow!
\par 
\par LIZ\tab What did they mean by that? 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Well it's safety considerations. And Johnnie Tuitel said the whole argument happened in front of all the other passengers just as they were about to 
\par take off. And yes, so apparently they said, "You are disabled but you're maybe just a little bit too disabled" and I think this was generally the gist of it. 
\par And obviously Mr Tuitel is not very happy about this at all, and has given countless press interviews about the whole thing and US Airways have said yes 
\par maybe we could have handled this better and they've invited Johnnie to actually go and give some talks for their staff. So he's actually made some money out 
\par of it. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Really? 
\par 
\par ROB\tab He's got some work. Can't argue with that. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It's going to be hard for him not to get a little angry at those talks I think. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I reckon. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab "And it's because of you!"
\par 
\par ROB\tab And he also says, "I don't complain about my disability I'm a guy who wants to go to work to take care of his children." [singing] He's a complicated 
\par man, only his woman understands. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab That's so motivational though. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I want to go. I've never actually been to anything like that before. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Well don't the always end, "And if I can do it, you can do it." 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Really? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab That's how a motivational speech has to end apparently. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Does everyone stand up at the end and cheer in the whole thing?
\par 
\par ROB\tab In America I'm sure they would, absolutely. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I'd quite like to experience that in a way. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab "There are no barriers people, yes we can." 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Have you got another story for us, Rob? 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Yes. In a similar vein actually it's a little bit closer to home, this is in Belfast. Basically the world's rudest bouncer. This is a club, we'll try 
\par and put this up on the website, you can see the logo, or should I say the signage to the club it doesn't look like the most salubrious. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Looks classic doesn't it? Classic. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab The club's called 'Rain' it rhymes with the places I used to go in the early '90s that were always called 'Rosie's' or 'Annabel's' or called 
\par 'Scamps'. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab But in Belfast it's called 'Rain' okay fair enough. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Rain yeah it doesn't lift the spirits does it? Anyway, Kieran McGrogan, wheelchair user, turned up to this club a couple of weeks ago. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No age there, wheelchair user... 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Do you want the age?
\par 
\par LIZ\tab ... 31. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Doesn't say his age, does it matter? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab He looks a quite a young lad. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Does he look over 18? 
\par 
\par ROB\tab No he doesn't actually. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hold on! It's not because he was disabled... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab He's because he's five. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Is it 'coz I is illegal? I think it was because he had a wheelchair and the bouncer decided that he basically couldn't be arsed to take Kieran up the 
\par stairs. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And what proof have we of this? 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Well because Kieran said that the bouncer told him, "Do you think I've got anything better to do than lug your wheelchair up a flight of stairs?" He 
\par was then told, "It's not your night." And so yeah wasn't allowed in even though apparently a load of really, really inebriated people came in even though 
\par Kieran, sober as a judge, wasn't allowed in.  
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Wasn't allowed in. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Because the bouncer couldn't be arsed to lug his wheelchair up the stairs. Kieran says he's found up to try and find out what's happened, nightclub 
\par haven't responded at all so he's gone to the papers. But it makes me... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Quite right too. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab ... what's the rudest thing anyone has ever said to you in a public place regarding your disability? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I've got one. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Go on. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It was in a disco, it was in Jersey. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Jersey. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And it was 1979. And a girl came up to me and said, "Sorry, I bet you're really sweet and everything, but looking at your arms makes me feel sick" 
\par and then just walked off. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No way!
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah. She said that. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Did you follow her flipping your arms walking around going...
\par 
\par MAT\tab Going whoo-oo, whoo-oo. No I didn't, I rather went back into my shell. I actually went over to the DJ and asked him to put on When the Kids are 
\par United by Sham 69 and solo pogo'd in the disco on my own as a response and was promptly banned from the venue. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab That makes me want to cry. Liz?
\par 
\par MAT\tab Unfortunately true. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Very cringe worthy I don't know if it's the worst one, but I was in a VIP area at an event and the security came \endash  it's security again \endash  shouted 
\par across the room, "We've got a disabled here!" It was just like... and of course everyone looked and you're like... 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Did you wave? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab You're quite dressed up and it was quite a nice event and it's like "Oh" it just brings you right down to... 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Yeah that's the end of the night. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab ... you are nothing kind of thing. Absolutely. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab To be fair to our security forces of the land is it because their induction to disability was a little... 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Perhaps a little less...
\par 
\par MAT\tab ... a little.....
\par 
\par ROB\tab ... less than thorough. Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab They've been furnished with only some of the information. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab "It's not your night, Mat, it's not your night."
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I was thinking that maybe looking at the guy I'm thinking maybe they didn't let him in because he does look very young and he is wearing a track 
\par suit. I'm just saying I'm not being a fascist here again \endash  a fashion fascist. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab You can wear a tracksuit to a disco can't you? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Can you - I don't know. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Even in Belfast apparently it allowed. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Really? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I thought places had dress codes and horrible things like that. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah but the point being that he's gone on about the wheelchair up and down the stairs hasn't he? 
\par 
\par ROB\tab The bloke could have just said to him, "I'm not letting you in, mate, because you look about 12 and you've got a tracksuit on." 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah that's true. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab The thing is we were talking about is it 'coz I is disabled. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah well that's what I was... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I was actually turned away several times from a club and the guy looks at me, baulks and then looks for other reasons and goes, "It's, um, your 
\par shoes, your shoes you've got the wrong shoes on."
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I've got a piece of news, I've got a news bit. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Okay. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No I have, a proper bit. So I was reading that National Magazine Company's Top 100 list of most influential women in the UK, okay, so number one if 
\par JK Rowling yeah? Number two Beckham. The Queen is number three. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab She'll be disappointed with that. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Number ten, number ten is Tanni Grey Thompson. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Whoa, we've made it, we've made it. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab We have a disabled woman, Baroness Thompson, is in the top ten. I just thought... I just wanted to share that because I just thought it was 
\par phenomenal to just be reading a magazine and find out that a disabled person had made it into there. So her of course of all the Paralympian fame, we will be 
\par seeing a lot of her in 2012 no doubt. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Absolutely. I'm genuinely quite impressed with that. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No isn\rquote t it incredible to have a crip in the Top Ten do you know what I mean? So I was very... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Guys!
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I want to introduce my new feature. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab That's right, I've been allowed, listeners, to do a feature, and I've got a new one. And basically I will now introduce every programme an impairment 
\par and look at the bright side of it okay? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab So let's call it the bright side of disability. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Wow I see what you've done there. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And this podcast's impairment is amputee okay. Now I've been thinking it's probably better to have a leg missing than an arm for this one, so we'll 
\par just ignore all the people with arm amputations. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab But here's the thing. Obviously the number one thing that we all think is that you only need one shoe, it's cheaper. But apparently they make you buy 
\par both of them a lot of the time in shops. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Just in case the other leg grows back you might need it one day. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Well maybe because they just can't be arsed to put it back in the box and wait for the opposite amputee to come in. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab To come in. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab But the thing is... 
\par 
\par ROB\tab With the same shoe size. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab ... you can actually collect all the shoes that you never use and make them into kind of a nice wall decoration, so it's not all bad, or pickle them 
\par in formaldehyde if you like modern art. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Create an little installation for the Turbine Hall at the Tate Modern. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Other benefits include the travel pass obviously, the blue badge, cheaper theatre tickets... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah but you could say that for anyone. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab ... and the Odeon pass. Sshh, Liz, this is a new feature, I'm warming into it. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Give it a chance. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Okay. And obviously if you make clothes you're literally laughing all the way to the trouser bank. What else can you think of for a leg amputee 
\par that's positive? [Whistling noise and chiming noise]
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Anyway it's good to see you, Rob. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Did you mention... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We'll be back with that feature next week. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Can I just ask what the connection is between an Odeon pass and being an amputee? It's a bit tenuous that. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I went to the Odeon the other day, and it was thirty quid a ticket in Leicester Square and I was like, "Thirty quid a ticket can't I pull a 
\par disability thing or something?" And he went "Well have you got an Odeon pass?" And I went, "What's one of them?" And he told me all about the Odeon pass you 
\par have to apply for, and then you get your carer comes in free. Now if you were to hop up, obviously leave the prosthetic leg... Oh the other thing I forgot to 
\par tell you that's good about being a leg amputee is you can wear a prosthetic and militant disabled people aren't angry at you for just being cosmetic, because 
\par you need it to balance. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab You could also mention a friend of mine only has one leg and he can park his car literally in the middle of Leicester Square. There's nowhere he 
\par can't park so it would seem. He drives everywhere to come and meet me and he always seems to find somewhere even in Soho, which I think is quite 
\par ((0:21:58.8?)) 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Well, Mat, I can't wait for... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It's impressive. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab ... I can't wait for next show's feature. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Our next show look out for Bipolar disorder \endash  is it all bad? I don't know what to say now.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No neither do we. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab He got his laptop out and everything. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I know and what are you thinking this was incredible. 
\par [Jingle: It's great working with Mat and Liz, they can say horrible things about disability and it's okay because they're disabled. People think they're 
\par being ironic but actually this show is just one big hate crime \endash  hilarious if you think about it. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We have got the most exciting band in disability arts, in fact the whole world in the studio right now, we've got The Fish Police here. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab The Fish Police. And that is Matt, hello Matt.
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hello. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Hello. We've got Dean.
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Dean Power. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Dean Power \endash  nice. And Charles. 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab Hi folks, hello. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Thank you for joining us. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Right, I'm going to have to tell the listeners straight... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Go on, go for it. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I recently did a gig at The Beautiful Octopus club which is run by the Classic Heart & Soul which Fish Police came out of and they were the headline 
\par band. I was blown away. Apart from anything else you know your music's fantastic it's like coming out of an R&B hip-hop kind of funk kind of place, but you 
\par look so sharp. You've all got the suits it was like an episode of Mad Men out there without the cigarettes. I mean unbelievable right, just totally thing. 
\par Tell us about the band Fish Police. 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Well it's a group with three people and two of them play instruments like the bass guitar and electric guitar and one person is the front person. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And that's you?
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Me yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And you're the front person. 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yes. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab You're the dapper one at the front in the suit. 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yes. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay. And how long have you been going? I saw you last September and I was at a festival and you guys were the biggest buzz. There was this, 
\par "Everyone's got to see Fish Police" I was like "What, what, what?" And I turned up and it was like, "Oh my God" because all of the visuals that you've got as 
\par well as music, you had a big screen and these great little videos as well so how did you develop all this where? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Tell us about that, Mat? Where do you get the style from, Mat? Where does that come from? You play guitar right? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And dance a lot. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Really well I might add. Where does that style come from? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It's stage. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab So you mean when you get on the stage you're just filled with it? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So you're not always like that? You're not like that at home every day, it's kind of a thing when you get on stage you really come out and that's it, 
\par you are Fish Police? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hm-mm. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab That's amazing yeah. 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab We kind of got the idea for Fish Police really came from Dean. We kind of came from a Heart & Soul workshop called the Heart & Soul Youth Group which 
\par we were doing about four/five years ago. So I've known Mat and Dean for almost five or six years now, seven years. And we wanted to try and take it a step 
\par further and so we just made this band, Fish Police, up. And Dean came up with the name and we just started writing songs about Dean's favourites things. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Like?
\par 
\par MAT\tab I think that's one of the things that I love is that you talk about your daily life and stuff that goes on in your life. I mean what sort of things 
\par do you sing about so the listeners can get an idea. Tell us some of the things you talk about in your songs? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Talking about Japanese girls. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Oh yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And you're going to be talking about that and we're going to hear that song, that track at the end yeah. 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yes that's right yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab You talk a lot about chicken. 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Chicken yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab You're a bit obsessed with chicken. 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yes I am. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Love it. Fried chicken any particular type? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab BBQ chicken. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay yes. 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab I think Dean has a favourite chicken, different type of chicken every day literally. Today it's BBQ. Yesterday I think it was fried wasn't it? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yeah fried. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And what are some of your other tracks called? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Like Scissors. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Like Scissors \endash  nice one. 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab What's that about? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab It's a Japanese TV programme 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Right you're all down with the Japanese stuff at the moment. 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yes. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab That's uncanny. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab It is, we've just had on our Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable thing last month we had a Japanese person, there's all this theme going on, it's all 
\par exciting stuff. So we have some questions for you guys, are you ready okay? 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab I think we are. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We're going to... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab They're quick fire.
\par 
\par MAT\tab Are we going to quick fire them at individuals, Liz, shall we? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I think so. Are you ready, Mat? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah I'm ready yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah we'll get to you, is that okay? So we're going to start with you Charles, okay? Describe your music in one word? 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab Tremendous!
\par 
\par MAT\tab Right, Dean \endash  Sunday roast or pizza?
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Pizza. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Mat, your favourite karaoke song? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Chicken.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yes.
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Chicken!
\par 
\par MAT\tab Charles, favourite song on your iPod today?
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab Night Fly by Donald Fagen.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Dean, Wallis & Grommet or The Muppets? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab The Muppets. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh yes rule. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Mat, if there was a guest artist you could invite to sing with The Fish Police who would be your favourite? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Chicken Nugget to me. Chicken Nuggets!
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab No actually I think it would be Lady GaGa he's got a thing about her at the moment. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh really? 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab I think so yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is that because of her meat dress? Or if she wore a chicken dress maybe that would be okay. Charles, New York or Tokyo?
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab Tokyo I think. 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yes Tokyo. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Dean, Halle Berry or Beyonc\'e9? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Beyonc\'e9.
\par 
\par MAT\tab Fair enough. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Mat, poetry or comic books? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Usher - that's the crazy world of Dean. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Right, Charles, Facebook or YouTube?
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab Neither. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Ooh controversial. 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab Although I am on Facebook. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab That's a necessary evil is it? 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab Yeah I suppose. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Fair enough. 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab That's Facebook. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And Dean, finally, your band is called Fish Police why would fish need a police force? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Well because I see a lot of fish becoming as police officers. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Really?
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yes. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Oh right so is that where the name comes from then? You see fish as police? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yes. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Wow what a freaky future we've got. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Wow imagine that.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I'm quite excited. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You're nicked. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I'm trying to think of fish based police bands but I can't think of any. 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab Maybe the frog doctors but that's not the frog doctors... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab It's not the same it it? 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab It's not quite the same. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Not quite the same. So how can people find out more about you? 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab You can go on line and our address... our website would be thefishpolice.com. We've also got an EP out. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And can we download the EP on iTunes? 
\par 
\par CHARLES\tab You can download the EP on iTunes. Our EP is called The Fish Police EP. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Now we're going to get you to introduce your song in a second, so stand by, Dean, until I point to you okay? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So we're going to be back in about two weeks as things start to get Christmassy. Yes, well today's show was produced by Damon Rose, Emma Tracey, Dan 
\par Slipper and Vicky Oswald. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Goodbye everyone. Cue \endash  Fish Police \endash  introduce Dean? 
\par 
\par DEAN\tab Yeah. This song is about a Japanese girl who's always falling asleep in the classroom. 
\par 
\par [Playing music]}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid10761303\charrsid3023519 
\par }}