Â鶹Éç

THIS TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE Â鶹Éç CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.Ìý

IN TOUCH – Fred and Etta Reid

Ìý

TX:Ìý 02.01.2018Ìý 2040-2100

Ìý

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

Ìý

PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý CHERYL GABRIEL

Ìý

White

Last year Dr Fred Reid and Etta Reid received a joint honorary degree from Warwick University, it was for their services to the community – Kenilworth – where they live.Ìý It could hardly have been more appropriate – they’ve known each other for well over 60 years, been married for more than 50 of those and they ran the readers’ service for other blind and partially sighted people in the area and still do, they’ve been doing that for 40 years – a major reason for the award.Ìý They’ve brought up three sighted children, pursued a range of interests together from outdoor activities and sports to music and the arts while following demanding careers.Ìý Fred was a historian, a university lecturer and author.Ìý Etta was a physiotherapist in the NHS.Ìý And as if that weren’t enough they’ve both been tireless campaigners on behalf of blind and disabled people.

Ìý

So what better way to start the New Year on In Touch than with a programme to mark their achievements and their partnership?Ìý Fred and Etta, first of all, how did you meet?

Ìý

Fred

Well shall I say first….

Ìý

White

You see one of the things we very curious about was who would go first…

Ìý

Fred

Who would jump in first, that’s right.Ìý Well I recall being taken into the Latin class at the Royal Blind School in 1952, wasn’t it Etta?

Ìý

Etta

Yes I think it was, ’52.

Ìý

Fred

That’s right.Ìý I’d never done Latin before, so I had some catching up to do.Ìý So the teacher asked me to come and sit at the front.Ìý And behind me there was this girl that I thought had a very nice voice and I rather fancied her and I thought I must get to know her.

Ìý

White

And how old were you then – you were both…?

Ìý

Fred

Just going on 15.

Ìý

White

Right.Ìý And what did you think of him Etta?

Ìý

Etta

Well to begin with I thought he’d a very strange voice, I mean I was a Glaswegian as well but he kind of…

Ìý

Fred

I talked down my nose in that Glasgow way at that time.

Ìý

Etta

Not very nice.

Ìý

White

That will be intriguing to people who will think blind people – surely they must go on the voice, that would be very crucial.

Ìý

Etta

Yeah that’s right, they do go on the voice to begin with.Ìý But then I discovered that he was very interesting.Ìý And the Latin teacher went away on a course, so every time we were supposed to have Latin Fred and I talked all the time, talk, talk, talk.Ìý And to begin he was speaking about the anatomy of the eye because he had recently gone blind, he had a detached retina and of course I’d been blinded in a road accident but I didn’t know anything about the anatomy of the eye.

Ìý

White

It’s not very romantic stuff this is it?

Ìý

Etta

No, no.

Ìý

Fred

That came later.Ìý Won’t tell you too much about that.

Ìý

Etta

This was in the classroom.

Ìý

White

Right you had to keep it clean in a classroom.

Ìý

Etta

That’s right, that was it.

Ìý

White

I think it’s clear from what you’ve been both achieved, that I talked about, that you’re both strong characters so where did the balance of power lie in those early days or perhaps now as well do you think?

Ìý

Fred

Well I think in balance we were pretty well equal I think because the first thing that struck me that really struck me about Etta was she was very musical, at that time she was just beginning to do grade six and she was preparing to play a Bach Prelude and Fuge at the Edinburgh Festival, not the international festival of course, the Edinburgh City Festival, she was entering in that class and she got a merit, didn’t you?

Ìý

White

Because this is grade six piano yeah?

Ìý

Fred

Grade six piano.Ìý And she was a very, very good pianist and a good singer as well and I’m quite susceptible to music.Ìý So that attracted me very much.

Ìý

White

Tell me a bit about the school because you were at the Edinburgh Blind School, what was that like?

Ìý

Fred

Well it was a very Victorian institution, the Victorian society was far from dead in Britain in general but especially in Scotland.Ìý And you just were not allowed to get at all close to one another, the rule was you can talk but you can’t touch.Ìý And Etta used to sing to me – please keep your distance, six feet is your distance because you know my resistance is low.Ìý

Ìý

White

That was a bit of a come on Etta wasn’t it?

Ìý

Etta

No not really.

Ìý

Fred

But of course we found ways of subverting the rules and the attempts to keep us all apart.Ìý We had dancing, we could get together in the library, that’s where we first actually clicked was in one of the library sessions I remember.Ìý But as I say it was very much on the basis that you could talk but if you were seen making any kind of amorous advance you were up on the carpet the next day and by god you got it hard.

Ìý

White

And obviously that was partly because they were kind of afraid presumably of what might happen but was there also this sense of blind people, you know it not being a good idea, even in the long term, for them to get together?

Ìý

Fred

Oh yes, I mean there was – I was always being lectured by the head and one of his lines was – the most important decision Reid that you will take in your life is the girl you should marry and I would hate you to have to be committed to marrying a blind girl.Ìý It was made very clear to you that that was not in your best interests and I just thought it was daft, I couldn’t see the point of it.

Ìý

White

You met at 15.Ìý You married at 26.Ìý What kept you?

Ìý

Fred

Well that was basically study, I mean we were in school till we were 20, I mean that’s something that people would find hard to imagine I think.Ìý We married at the first opportunity we had, which was in 1963 when I had just gone to Oxford to start my PhD studies and Etta had just qualified as a physio.

Ìý

White

We talked about headmaster’s disapproval, well what about your families – Etta, what about you?

Ìý

Etta

°Â±ð±ô±ô…

Ìý

White

Have I hit a nerve?

Ìý

Etta

My father used to come every week and take me out, they’d take me out for tea and buy me all sorts of nice things.Ìý And he didn’t like the idea that I was going with this person who was rather left wing…

Ìý

White

Oh so it wasn’t his blindness, it was his politics.

Ìý

Etta

Oh no it was being left wing.Ìý Talking about the Communist Party.Ìý And no he didn’t like that.

Ìý

Fred

Yes my parents were both Communists you see and I was very outspoken and at that time believed I was a Communist, though I never actually joined the Communist Party.Ìý Your parents were relatively relaxed, I mean they knew about me, I couldn’t possibly have told my mother that I had a girlfriend at the Royal Blind School, she was absolutely neurotic.Ìý I mean the one thing that really – I mean she was desperate for me to get back into education and she did a very good job about fighting my corner in that respect but the one thing that she did not like about the Royal Blind School was it was co-educational and she dreaded that I might get in cahoots with a blind girl.Ìý And when she discovered that we had got together, at that point we were about 20, she was furious and I had a battle for nine months with her over it.Ìý And finally she gave in because she saw that there was nothing she could do about it.

Ìý

White

And on that really when we’ve finally got you safely married did you ever have any doubts about having children?

Ìý

Etta

No.

Ìý

Fred

No, I don’t think so no.

Ìý

White

But Etta I think you have said people were waiting for you to fail, did it feel like that a bit?

Ìý

Etta

No, I think we were very confident.Ìý But I also think, perhaps because both of us were fully sighted at one time, it might have been a bit of an advantage because we knew what things looked like, we knew how to do things.

Ìý

White

We’ll come back perhaps a bit to that but on the jobs front you Etta went into physiotherapy, why?Ìý Was it about what was available or was it something that you fancied doing?

Ìý

Etta

No I wanted it because I’d been in hospital so many times, and I’d actually had physio.Ìý One day I was sent along to the headmaster and he said to me – now what do you want to do when you leave school.Ìý And I said – I want to do physiotherapy.Ìý He said – I was thinking you might be suitable for shorthand and typing.Ìý And I said – No Mr Anderson, I don’t want to do shorthand and typing, I want to do physiotherapy.Ìý So that was it.

Ìý

White

And you stuck to your guns.Ìý Yeah.Ìý And Fred, you are, have been for over 30 years, you lectured at the University of Warwick, was that expected in your family?

Ìý

Fred

Funnily enough I wanted to be a lawyer from – ooh quite an early age.Ìý Before I went blind I wanted to be a lawyer.Ìý But when I started out to do the law degree I realised I wasn’t particularly interested in law, certainly not the conveyancing and the wills and so forth…

Ìý

White

I had a similar experience.

Ìý

Fred

…what I would have been given to do no doubt.Ìý And I had got a first in history, so I thought right blow this for a game of soldiers I’m getting out of this and applied to go to Oxford and got in to do a PhD.Ìý So history came upon me, as it were, but once I got the idea I wanted to do history, I never looked back.

Ìý

White

What with jobs and a growing family, I mean people – you could easily have settled for that most people would have thought that was more enough for two blind people to cope with.Ìý Instead of which you were both very active – Fred in national campaigns, both of you with the readers’ service here in Kenilworth.Ìý What was driving you do you think?

Ìý

Fred

What happened there was that Ted Herbert, a wonderful person in Kenilworth, ran the Coventry careers guidance service and he rang my doorbell one night, I didn’t know him at that time, he rang my doorbell and he said I’ve got a young chap who is trying to get into employment and I think it would help him if he had some voluntary work, I wonder if he could come and read for you.Ìý And I said, well Ted, to be honest, I’ve got as many readers as I can possibly cope with.Ìý And then a little light went on in my head and I said – but I’ll tell there’s an idea I’ve often had that a lot of people need things read to them, other than academic things, and it would be just wonderful if there was some service that people could plug into and get a reader on demand to read their electric bills or their gas bills, their birthday cards and postcodes, whatever.Ìý I mean there’s – Etta remembers and tells this wonderful illustrative story – do you remember when we were in Oxford Etta?

Ìý

Etta

Mrs Lambert, yes…

Ìý

Fred

The landlady.

Ìý

Etta

... yes the landlady, yes.Ìý Now I think we’d only been there for a few days and I came back from work and she said – well there’s a postcard for you, I noticed it was from Edinburgh, I haven’t read it I’ve just put on the hall table.Ìý And I said – well – I thought to myself well there can’t be much on a postcard.Ìý So I said – Could you please read it to me Mrs Lambert?Ìý Oh yes – Sorry to hear you are having to pay such an extortionate rent.Ìý And she nearly exploded.Ìý Well!Ìý I don’t think you’re paying an extortionate rent.Ìý And mind you it was only £5 a week and I don’t really think – we can back her – that it was an extortionate rent.

Ìý

White

And it’s the whole thing about privacy isn’t it basically, you need your privacy.

Ìý

Fred

Exactly.Ìý And it was a new – I mean we didn’t think of this at the time but looking back on it it was a new concept of voluntary action because instead of a voluntary organisation saying this is what we do for you and this is what you can have, we were saying tell us what you want, tell us when you need a reader, what time you want a reader and we’ll provide the reader at the time that’s convenient to you.Ìý So I mean voluntary action has moved in that direction ever since it seems to me, you now get trained with a guide dog from your home, you don’t have to go to the Guide Dog centre.Ìý

Ìý

White

And it’s still running isn’t it, it’s still…

Ìý

Fred

It’s still running, yes, yes still running here in Kenilworth, yeah.

Ìý

White

Fred, you’ve said of all the things you’ve done family is still absolutely crucial to you.Ìý Let’s just get a sense of that, I mean what was your house like with three young kids growing up?

Ìý

Fred

Well Etta, I really have to say, she just was wonderful the way she took to running a house, she’s a great organiser and a great administrator, always has been and so was her mother, incidentally.Ìý But it didn’t faze her that she had three children under 16 months…

Ìý

White

Because you had twins.

Ìý

Fred

We had twins the second time that’s right.Ìý And she just got on with it.Ìý We rolled up our sleeves, I mean although I was very busy for the first couple of years as a university lecturer, you know you’re frantically preparing lectures all the time and you don’t have a lot of spare time but I had enough spare time to be able to help a bit and I used to make up 12 bottles every night so that Etta could feed the children right through the following day.Ìý And then Etta, I mean she invented a way of going out with the children, with the twins in their twin pushchair.

Ìý

Etta

Well the guide dog was guiding me along and I had some way of hanging on to the…

Ìý

Fred

You pulled the pushchair behind you didn’t you?

Ìý

Etta

The pushchair behind me, yes.

Ìý

Fred

But the point is the guide dog trainers had told you that you shouldn’t do that, it couldn’t be done, they said.Ìý And you just did it.

Ìý

Etta

Well I just did it.Ìý But we were fortunate that we bought the house, which was in a nice quiet area, although there were local shops very near and I could go there with the twin pram.Ìý And Gavin, the little boy who was walking, he was ever so good, he kept beside me, he never ever tried to run away or anything like that.

Ìý

White

Did they try and put one over on you as they got older?Ìý I mean I’ve had kids as well so I know…

Ìý

Fred

I don’t think seriously no.Ìý I mean – but Julie’s told stories about how they’d get a milky bar and put it in the shopping trolley without mum knowing and things like that, little things like that.Ìý And Etta’s told the story about how she say to Julie going out the door to school and Etta saying – You’ve got your coat on Julie?Ìý Yes mum, I’ve got my coat on and shut the door quickly before mum could come and feel.

Ìý

Etta

Sometimes – now this was when she was a bit older by the way, this was when she was at secondary school and she would come with her coat on and she would say – I’m just going back for something – and I knew that she was putting the coat back on the bannister and I said – Well alright, who’ll mind you then if you get a bad cold I won’t be staying off work to look after you.

Ìý

Fred

Yeah that’s right.

Ìý

White

Yeah it’s one of those things, I mean sighted people think very odd things about blind people.Ìý One of the things that people are always amazed about when I talk to them is about couples who have – blind couples – who have kids, they just don’t seem to be able to get their heads round it.Ìý Do you understand that Etta?

Ìý

Etta

No.

Ìý

Fred

I don’t either, no.Ìý I mean they’re always going on, one of the questions they ask you over and over again – it must have been awful not to see your children.Ìý Now of all the things that they’re lovable about children, millions of them, the things the say, the things they do, yeah of course you’d like to see them but they just go on about this one as though it’s some sort of permanent sadness when you’re actually full of the joys of parenthood.

Ìý

Etta

And people used to tell us how beautiful they all were.

Ìý

Fred

Yeah that’s right, and you don’t…

Ìý

Etta

They were all fair-haired and blue eyes.

Ìý

Fred

You don’t pine and think oh I wish I could see them, fleetingly you might think that but…

Ìý

Etta

Well we could imagine what they looked like.

Ìý

White

Etta, can I ask you about your music because we touched on it earlier but that’s quite important to you isn’t it?

Ìý

Etta

Well yes I still have a go at playing the piano but I’m nothing like as good what I was I’m afraid.Ìý I did grade eight when I was at school and sometimes I didn’t have a piano available, when I was away in London.Ìý And when we first got married we didn’t have a piano.Ìý But somebody was going off to South Africa and he said – oh we’ve got a piano, you can have that.Ìý So that was terrific, so we had this piano given to us which we had for quite a while.

Ìý

Fred

Yeah we had it for years and… 40 years or so.

Ìý

Etta

Until Fred bought me a new one.Ìý But when was it?

Ìý

Fred

It was for your 40th wedding anniversary I bought you a new piano.

Ìý

Etta

That’s right.

Ìý

Music – Etta playing the piano

Ìý

White

A question I do want to ask you both before we end and that is – I mean you have both been involved in so many aspects of public life and private life, you’ve seen – you know – you both know lots of visually-impaired people. ÌýDo you think visually-impaired people are better off now than in the past?Ìý And I’m not just talking about money, I’m talking about lifestyle, about satisfaction.

Ìý

Fred

No some are obviously, I mean use this expression – the blind elite – which I think is often misunderstood.Ìý People think I’m referring to an academic elite, I’m not, I just think that there are blind people whose qualities of endurance and stickability are so good that they cope with everything that life throws at them.Ìý But everybody isn’t the same.Ìý And those kind of people get into the good jobs and they become admired and they get into leading positions and so forth – you know the David Blunkett’s of this life.Ìý My good friend, Colin Lowe, comes to mind as well.Ìý But the majority of blind people are – a. the majority are old; b. of the younger groups the majority have additional impairments, often intellectual disabilities, and life for them I think is a pretty hard struggle.Ìý And they are not perceived by society as these remarkable people who do these remarkable things, they are a hidden majority who are kept out of sight and get a pretty hard deal.Ìý I always say if you live long enough you see progress but god you have to live a very long time.

Ìý

White

Well you two have obviously lived a long time, enjoyed each other’s company for a long time and thank you very much for talking to us.Ìý Fred and Etta Reid, thank you.

Ìý

Music – Etta playing the piano