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THIS TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE Â鶹Éç CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.Ìý

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IN TOUCH – Big Blind Walk

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TX:Ìý 30.01.2018Ìý 2040-2100

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PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý CHERYL GABRIEL

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White

Good evening.Ìý Tonight, the Big Blind Walk – we’ll be exploring the why, the where and the how.Ìý And when you lose your walking partner, the pain and a few pleasures, when you have to part with a guide dog.

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Clip

I sometimes smell of perfume and not wet dog.Ìý I can ride at the top of the bus.

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White

Well that’s Tanvir Bush, in mourning with a few compensations.Ìý More from her later.

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Now, fancy a walk, a stroll to the shops maybe?Ìý You might even take on the odd hill.Ìý But that’s not going to be enough for tonight’s studio guest.Ìý Julian Jackson won’t be satisfied until he’s completed nearly a thousand miles.Ìý It’s the distance between Lands End and John O’ Groats, a very famous distance of course, and Julian reckons it should take him, and a variety of human guides, around seven weeks.Ìý Julian Jackson, welcome to the programme.

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Jackson

Thank you Peter, it’s good to be here.

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White

There’s only one place to start – why?Ìý Why would you go so far for so long?

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Jackson

First of all, I believe that we need, all of us, to do much more about raising awareness and understanding of the impacts of sight loss – socially, economically, financially, psychologically.Ìý There’s a lot of sight loss around, as you know, and it’s growing – we’re all living longer and getting older.

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White

But I’m bound to ask – how does you walking nearly a thousand miles help with that?

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Jackson

My answer is – I want to do something to raise awareness and understanding of sight loss.Ìý I also want to promote my research.Ìý When I lost my sight all those years ago I actually knew nothing about the amazing work that so many researchers and clinician scientists are doing on a daily basis to prevent sight loss and treat eye disease and restore sight.

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White

And it’s your contention that there isn’t enough research on this and that it does not compare favourably with other areas of medical research.

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Jackson

Yes, there’s a lot of very good research going on.Ìý If you look across the piste in fact, from cell therapies all the way through to robotics and artificial intelligence but I feel that not only does most of the population here not really engage and understand eye research but also that it’s one of the most underfunded areas of medical research in the UK.Ìý So, if I can engage and enthuse a much wider population and encourage those in government and in other organisations to think again about the need for greater investment then I think it’s a job well done.

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White

I mean give me the stats – I mean when you say it’s very underfunded, compared with what, for example?

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Jackson

The government are currently spending more on dental hygiene and hearing loss than they are on sight loss.Ìý And when you look at the top 30 charities involved in sight loss only 1% of what they invest every year goes into eye research, rather than the practical support for visually-impaired and blind people.Ìý When you look at the members of the association medical research charities only .7% of the money they invest every year goes into eye research rather than any other form of medical research, then I think there’s quite a disconnect between what people fear around losing their sight and what we’re doing to invest in new research.

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White

And that’s the interesting thing because you say that a lot of charities don’t invest in it, which includes the charities that deal with visual impairment.Ìý I mean, as you said, the RNIB claimed in some research a little while ago that this is people’s greatest fear.Ìý But this is what the retiring CEO of the RNIB said just over a year ago when we put the question to her about charities’ attitude to the funding of medical research.

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Alexander

RNIB took a decision not to get into funding medical research some years ago and I think that was where we drew the line between the here and now and the future.Ìý So, we don’t put money into medical research and we have no plans to do so.Ìý We do put quite a lot of energy and effort and therefore some money into eye health issues.Ìý So, the easy things that people can do to prevent avoidable sight loss.

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White

You mean things like giving up smoking.

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Alexander

Giving up smoking, losing weight, the healthy diet – all those things that we all know.Ìý But also getting your eyes tested every couple of years.

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White

So, what’s your reaction to that Julian?

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Jackson

My reaction to that Peter, is that she’s missing a trick.Ìý Eye health is one important issue but in fact investing in research that prevents sight loss from happening in the first place and treating eye disease in restoring sight, it might be through stem cell research, for example, or in rehabilitating patients through technologies are so important as well.Ìý And I want to, with this Big Blind Walk, kick-start the debate amongst government organisations and the voluntary sector into appreciating that we need to do much more.

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White

And yet, I mean that’s what, in a way, we want to do because there is a debate to be had, isn’t it, because it is reasonable also for a charity dealing with people with visual impairments to say money is very tight, services are diminishing, we have to concentrate on the people who are here now and that there are other ways to fund eye research.

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Jackson

There are several ways of funding eye research but Peter I just want to go back to this point about the support for visually-impaired and blind people.Ìý When I lost my sight I really appreciated the white stick training, the computer training, the offer of a guide dog and so on.Ìý And I’m not suggesting that that isn’t important and hugely valuable to many, many people in this country.Ìý What I am saying is that none of that is actually going to give me back my sight or anybody else.Ìý And it’s certainly not going to prevent the onset of sight loss and it’s not going to treat eye disease.Ìý So, we do need more investment and we need more people to talk about it.

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White

And yet, just to pursue this a little bit further, despite what you say is a very inadequate funding level there is a lot of research going on and in recent years considerable advances.Ìý I mean cataract surgery is now very much a routine procedure because of work, drugs can slow down some forms of macular disease and even halt them, we’re working on gene therapy for inherited conditions such as retinitis pigmentosa, which I think is what you have.Ìý The money is being found isn’t it?

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Jackson

Not enough money is being found is the point.Ìý And I completely agree with you.Ìý When I was diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa back in the mid-‘60s my mother was told that she should take us to faith healers.Ìý That was really where we were at that point.Ìý And you scroll forward 30, 40, 50 years and yes we now have laser surgery, cataract surgery, corneal transplantations – wonderful advances in surgical equipment and procedures.Ìý They’re using next generation sequencing now to sequence the genome.Ìý So, there is a lot of activity in research but it needs continual funding.

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White

So, where’s the money going and who will decide how it’s going to be distributed?

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Jackson

The money is being received by the National Eye Research Centre based in Bristol, they are a national charity.Ìý They will be managing the fund – 75% will be going to them, 25% will be going to my social enterprise – Vision Bridge – because I feel passionately that there should be a twin track approach to this.Ìý On the one hand, we should be investing more in eye research and on the other we should be talking about research and Vision Bridge is all about trying to make that connection between what goes on in the laboratory and what happens in the clinic.

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White

And that’s a national enterprise organisation, which means that you aren’t allowed to make profits, is that right?

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Jackson

Yes, I have a social enterprise.Ìý We are supported by well over 200 academic researchers, clinicians, scientists and patient advocates and we run around the country talking about research, essentially giving it, if you like, a context that is more inspirational.

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White

Let’s just pause for a moment because we’ll come back to the walk itself.Ìý I want to take a little detour though to explore what happens when man’s and woman’s best friend is due for retirement.Ìý There was considerable controversy on this programme last year when Red Szell suggested that a guide dog wasn’t necessarily for everyone and particularly not for him.Ìý Well writer, Dr Tanvir Bush, has taken a different view, she recorded her experiences for us from her home.

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Bush

My best friend, my muse and guide dog Grace retired last April.Ìý And due to circumstances out of our control she has been very happily rehomed with a wonderful family.Ìý I am alone but I’m on the list for another guide dog.Ìý Being alone again has caused me some unexpected consternation.Ìý You see Grace was the ultimate ice breaker – eyes turn to her, expressions soften, people smile when they see her coming.Ìý I often felt like her PA, dragging along behind, basking in her reflected glory.Ìý

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Sometimes it could be a right real pain in the proverbial.Ìý In spite of the large black and yellow sign on her harness reading – Please, don’t distract me, I’m working – people could still be quite rude when I asked them not to fuss her or to leave us alone so she could do her job safely.Ìý

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Grace didn’t help by making eyes at everyone.Ìý She could and still can seriously work a room that dog.Ìý When Grace and I both in full PhD regalia, both hatted and gowned, were invited to lead the procession out of Bath Abbey on our graduation day, Grace just made the assumption that everyone in the abbey was there for her.Ìý She nodded and smiled nobly and posed for photos, just like a furry Beyoncé.Ìý

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But the thing is that while Grace was guiding me I wasn’t being given the crip stare, that slightly slidey sideways stare that people often use when they’re nervous about someone with a disability. There was always this great warm furry beasty between them and the scary blind woman.Ìý Ìý

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And now I’m Graceless, I’ve got no conduit, no ice breaker, people have to negotiate me directly again and I them and it’s hard.Ìý For nearly eight years I was part of a team.Ìý People would call us both Grace and I didn’t mind.Ìý And I love her so much I thought the whole of Bath Abbey should have been there just for her.Ìý But that’s not the point.Ìý The point is I’m having to renegotiate my identity again.Ìý And I’m blinder than I was eight years ago and I’m older.

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On the plus side, leaving the flat with a guide dog meant – harness, water bowl, play collar, lead, dog towel, wet wipes, poo bags, squeaky toy and sometimes I’d even remember Grace!Ìý And now I flit, a mere handbag and cane.Ìý I don’t leave a trail of poo bags, dog fur and fishy treats in my wake.Ìý I sometimes smell of perfume and not wet dog.Ìý I can ride at the top of the bus.Ìý I can stay overnight at a friend on a whim without having to worry about dog piddle.Ìý And I don’t have to take Grace out to pee in the howling gales at 5.00 a.m.Ìý I take more risks, physically, than I would with her too, in that I’ll go walking alone and if things go wrong at least I know I haven’t caused harm to her.Ìý I need only be anxious about myself.Ìý How deliciously selfish, it is a freedom but it is a freedom to be lonely.Ìý

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So, do I want another dog?Ìý Yes, with all my heart.Ìý But that dog won’t be Grace, so maybe it won’t work.Ìý I don’t know.Ìý We’ll have to wait and see.

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White

Dr Tanvir Bush.

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Interesting to get your reactions to that.Ìý Julian Jackson is still with me.

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Clearly, you’re a keen walker, we’ve established that, ever contemplated a guide dog?

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Jackson

Do you know Peter I haven’t.

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White

Why not?

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Jackson

Because I have two dogs already, I’ve grown up with dogs, I love dogs.Ìý I don’t need another companion and as Tanvir said there’s a lot of responsibility dealing with a guide dog, living with a guide dog.

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White

I think we ought to find a bit more about you.Ìý When did you lose your sight?

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Jackson

I lost it completely in 2010.Ìý I woke up one day and had this very weird feeling that I would lose it within probably three weeks.Ìý I’d been seeing out of 2% in one eye for a long time before that and it’s incredible what you can see with 2% in one eye.Ìý And I was – sure enough I’d put my daughter to bed and woke up in the morning and I couldn’t see her.Ìý

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White

Was that the toughest…

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Jackson

And that was quite a tough thing.

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White

…thing about it.

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Jackson

That was very tough.Ìý And I couldn’t, of course, navigate my way round the house, I fell over the dog, she wasn’t happy about that.Ìý And of course, I couldn’t see my wife either and my friends, I couldn’t navigate outside, it became very isolating and very alarming and very confusing and very disorientating, all in one 24-hour period.

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White

Can we talk a bit more about the actual mechanics of this walk?Ìý It’s all very well to do it but someone who can see can gain all sorts of things from it – they can look at the scenery, they can watch the wildlife – isn’t walking, if you can’t see, a bit dull?

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Jackson

Well Peter that’s an interesting point.Ìý I tandem cycled from John O’ Groats to Lands End back in 2010 and you interviewed me about that.Ìý The average speed we were doing then was about 20 miles an hour.Ìý Walking we’re averaging about three miles an hour.Ìý So, this whole experience is going to be very slowed down for me.Ìý I had a very strange compulsion when I went blind to get outside and stay outside.Ìý I want to feel the sunshine on my face, the rain, the wind – essentially battling the elements, if you like.

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White

Because there’ll be some quite rough terrain won’t there?

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Jackson

Yes, there will, especially in the Highlands but I want to be able to feel the terrain.Ìý I also love the interaction with my wonderful guides who will have that job of not only stopping me from falling into potholes but also describing the landscapes around me.Ìý As you know Peter, with no sight, you listen very hard.

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White

I’m interested that you say that because there are two ways of looking at it and – because do you want someone describing the terrain and the area and the things around you relentlessly?Ìý I can remember when I did my Comic Relief walk it was great to start with and then it was – it was in the desert this – so there’s a boulder, there’s another boulder, there’s a sand dune…

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Jackson

A boulder is a boulder.

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White

A boulder is a boulder.Ìý Can you have too much chat and description on a walk…

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Jackson

Yes, you can.Ìý And a great friend of mine, who’s my tandem buddy, there are periods of silence, which is wonderful.Ìý And I’m sure there will be periods of silence on the walk.Ìý In fact, a friend of mine who will be guiding me at some stage said to me the other day – now Julian I am going to be walking with you for five days, do we have to chat all the time?Ìý

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White

And the answer to that is no you don’t.

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Jackson

The answer is certainly not.

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White

And are you expecting a good deal of media interest for this?

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Jackson

Yes, I am.Ìý There is some good television interest coming down the track, which is great.Ìý And I’m hoping that the local regional press will pick this up, social media has already got hold of it.Ìý And I’m hoping that this will become a massive collaborate effort Peter and I hope you’re going to join me as well somewhere at some time along the route.Ìý I’m a small cog in a very large wheel and I’m inviting eye health professionals, patients, the public to come and join me.

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White

Well I’ll tell you what I may well take up your invitation.Ìý But I want you to do one more bit of work for us because if all that wasn’t enough we’d like your help with a programme we’re planning in the very near future.Ìý It’s an idea suggested to us by listener James Bird, he wanted us to consider the effect of visual impairment on men’s sense of their masculinity.Ìý He pointed out that regardless of current views of equality there are still deeply ingrained ideas about what a real man should and shouldn’t do – things like the difficulty of getting a job or being able to take hold of physical jobs and not being able to do it.Ìý We thought this well worth a look, so we’d like to hear listeners’ views and yours first, Julian.Ìý Are you partly doing this to prove that a blind man can still be a tough guy?

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Jackson

I’ve always been a tough guy Peter, I don’t think I need to prove that I’m a real man.Ìý No joking aside, I’m doing this because I want to also prove that visually-impaired blind people and sighted people can get out and enjoy the countryside.Ìý And that you can be as mobile as you were before you went blind or became very visually-impaired.

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White

Okay, well we wish you the best of luck with it.Ìý We’ll keep an eye on your progress.Ìý And we want to hear listeners’ views on that and Julian’s proposed walk.Ìý You can call our actionline on 0800 044 044 for 24 hours after tonight’s programme.Ìý You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk or you can click on contact us on our website and download tonight’s and other programmes from there.Ìý From me, Peter White, tonight’s guest, Julian Jackson, thanks very much for being with us…

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Jackson

Thank you, Peter.

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White

…producer, Cheryl Gabriel, and the team, goodbye.

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