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06th September 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 123

Presented by Emma Tracey

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EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hello and welcome to our third special episode from Paris, where we have been taking in all aspects of the Paralympics, even some of the sport, but we’ve also been taking in the drama and the food and the people. It’s really noisy, I can hear international voices. But I do want to tell you about some of the food, because you can’t go to France without talking about the food. We managed to get into the athletes lounge this morning at Paralympics GB House. That’s where the athletes hang out. We sat on chairs that gold medal winners had sat on. And in there they had macarons, and you can’t go to Paris without a few macarons. On them one of them had the Eiffel Tower and Paris written on it, and the other one had Paralympics GB sign, and they were absolutely delicious, completely scrumptious. So, I’m going to grab a few more macarons and head on my adventure around Paris. On with the show.

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Theme music.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We have an absolute cracker of a show coming up for you. We’re going to be speaking to the boss of Paralympics GB, David Clarke. We’re going to be talking to an amazing woman called Deza about life for disabled people in France. But first we got access to one of the most locked down places in Paris. And it isn’t the Louvre and it isn’t the Eiffel Tower; it is the athletes’ village. And we were let into the athletes’ village to visit Ottobock, which is an enormous workshop where they fix all the athletes’ prosthetics, bikes, wheelchairs. We literally saw a rugby wheelchair being welded back together after whacking into so many other wheelchairs. And here we meet Donna Fisher, and she is a CPO which is, it’s quite hard to say but I’m going to try it, she’s a certified prosthetist orthotist. And she makes prosthetics and orthotics, and she’s really into it and she’s absolutely brilliant.

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DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The main function for the workshop is we will provide a repair service to all of the athletes and the Paralympic family. I think almost 4,400 athletes competing in the Paralympic Games, some of them will use different types of equipment: some are using wheelchairs; some are using prothesis for sports; others are using prosthesis for walking around or wheelchairs for moving around. So, we will do repairs on any of the equipment that athletes require for their sports.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And how big is the operation? How big is Ottobock here?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, this is my fourth Paralympic Games. I started in London, and this is the biggest team that we have brought. We have a team of over 160 orthopaedic technicians here, and a support team around that of administrators, media, all the girls who are taking in the orders. So, it’s a huge team we have here in France.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wow, that’s a lot. And they come from all over the world, don’t they?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý All over the world. We have technicians from I think 40 countries, and we are speaking more than 30 different languages.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Background talking] we also have a sewing area here, Emma. I’m just bringing you around. One of my colleagues here is doing some sewing. Louane is making some sewing of a strap to put a soft pad onto an attachment to hold the athlete’s leg onto the wheelchair when they’re playing.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Often with the sports they are moving very quickly, and the tennis in the wheelchair, rugby and in the basketball, and they don’t want to fall out of the chair, and they need to be really securely fastened. So, there’s a lot of pressure on the straps, and they are breaking, and so we do a lot of repairing of the straps.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh my goodness. Do they break during matches and stuff as well?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý They can do, yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And if you were at the wheelchair rugby would you be expected to fix a strap or would that just be a you’ll have to wait?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý If we can we’ll fix it there. If not we send it back here to the workshop and we will fix it for them as soon as we can.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay. Because they do really chuck themselves about in the rugby, don’t they?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. Actually what I will show you just while we’re here is, because I think I hear the welder. This is a noisy room so sorry for the noise. In behind the screen here there is a whole welding area where we’re welding the frames of the wheelchairs when they break.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wow. How do they break? How does a frame break during a match?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The force that the athletes are hitting each other in the rugby. And the tennis also is really hard on the wheelchairs. Gunther?

GUNTHER-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Would you mind for one moment explaining to my colleagues here what you are doing with the chair?

GUNTHER-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We weld to repair the frame of the chair. It was broken, and we fix it again.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And this is a rugby chair?

GUNTHER-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý This is a rugby chair, yes.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Rugby chair, okay.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And what did it come in like? What happened to it?

GUNTHER-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s an old chair.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, it’s an old chair and the frame has cracked.

GUNTHER-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, with the rugby the forces when they are hitting each other it’s crazy. So, Gunther, my colleague, is one of our wheelchair welder experts, so he is very used to doing this type of work. But sometimes with the older chairs the force is just over and over and over and over again, and eventually it just cracks. So, Thorsten and GuntherÌý have now fixed it.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Brilliant.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And it’s ready for a competition.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Ready for a competition, lovely. I feel like I’m in a mixture of Inside the Factory and Santa’s workshop.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah exactly [laughs], that’s not a bad way to think of it, Emma. Thank you.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, I bring you to the store and it’s not so exciting but it will give you an idea of what types of things that we’re doing. So, we have a stock room with over 20,000 parts.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wow.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We brought the parts from our head office in Duderstadt in Germany in three big trucks, all e-trucks. This is the store room. The store is just full of shelves. We have prosthetics, orthotics and wheelchairs, so we have many tyres, many tubes for tyres, bearings, screws.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Is it all in boxes?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We’ve got all different types of feet. Come on over and I’ll let you just have a little feel. So, this is the prosthetic area.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý She indulges me. This is like your Aladdin’s Cave then?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Absolutely.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Very good.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, we’ve got, as I say, 20,000 different parts in here.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Amazing.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Now we’re ging to go round the corner and we’ll head back to the workshop. What we also have is we have two 3D printers. We’ve also got a really interesting 3D printing device going on at the moment which is for an Australian athlete. And they’re missing both of their arms, so bilateral, below elbow, so they’re missing both arms from below the elbow. And they are really struggling to move their suitcase. So, it’s a swimmer and to go to the swimming he needs to bring his clothes and his equipment. And he has like a normal suitcase with wheels, but he can’t wheel it because he doesn’t have any hands.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No grip.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Exactly. So, we’re actually making a two-part attachment that will fit onto the suitcase and then he can fit his arm and then he can wheel the wheelchair.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That sounds like something that could go to market.

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Absolutely. And these are one-off things. This athlete has come into us with a problem, we have to decide what’s the solution and then how do we make it. So, he will come back at 7pm this evening and we will fit it to the suitcase.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And what is the range of equipment that you guys are repairing? You talked about wheelchairs and prosthetic limbs; are there different things other than that, but also different types of prosthetics and different types of wheelchairs depending on where you come from and what you can afford et cetera?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. I guess what we see is from a competition point of view there are obviously regulations around what the athletes can use. So, for the competitions for the wheelchair basketball, wheelchair rugby they would have specialist chairs, the road racing bikes, and they would all be of the same type because they need to be for a competition. But we also see a lot of different types of prosthesis, orthosis and wheelchairs that are for daily use coming from all over the world. So, obviously from the developing world we will see some equipment that is maybe not so modern. And then from the developed countries we are seeing more modern, sometimes the high-spec electronic components. So, it’s a real mixture of everything that we do.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Does something come in sometimes and you go, oh-ho, that is beautiful or fancy or ooh, I’ve not seen this before, can’t wait to work on this?

DONNA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Absolutely; and this is why I want to be here because we’re always learning. I’m doing the job for over 30 years but I still come here and I still see something, I get ideas that I can bring home with me, and it’s really good for us as well.

MUSIC-

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I have been invited down a side street in the centre of Paris. I’m here to meet Deza Nguembock, she’s an inclusion specialist. She’s from Cameroon but been living in Paris for 20 years. And I asked her all about the French perspective on the Paralympics being in the city:

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The Paralympics is taking place almost in many different places in Paris. I’ve heard yesterday two of my friends who are disabled athletes that they had had a lot of medals with the Paralympics and they were very, very happy. They say that because of the Paralympics people are much more aware of what disabled people can do without barriers. So, I think like them that it can be a good idea because people are talking and the media are talking much more about disabled people. And I really hope that after the Paralympics it’s going to go on and not just stop.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Have you been to see everything?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ve been to the opening ceremony, but tonight I’m going to see the para athletics.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What was being at the opening ceremony like?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It was amazing, I really, really enjoyed it. I think it was the first big event on disabled people that was really successful in my point of view.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And what made it so successful?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We were able to see disabled people and listen to their personal stories, experiences. And it was not only about sport, it was also about fashion, culture, everything was in the mix and I really, really liked it.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, because lots of people’s stories were played in, weren’t they? What did you think of the performance?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The performance during this ceremony was really, really well organised and it was successful. I really liked the performances about dance, it was very powerfully displayed. The choreography it was so, so powerful.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What was the choreographer and the dancers trying to say with that performance?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The people and the body are diverse, like what we were able to see in that performance, and everything was beautiful. Even if you see people with no legs, no arms, everything was well displayed and we can see the beauty inside those people. So, the message was depending on how people are, depending on their situation you can see harmony, you can see beauty. And diversity should become a norm, not something that can make people exclude those who are different.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And are disabled people represented well in France? So, are there disabled people on TV, in adverts, in music, in culture?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I made a study in March this year trying to measure how disabled people are represented in many different spheres in society. It was about society itself, employment, media, politics, and what we can see from this study was disabled people were very badly represented. In media for almost 20 years we had less than 2% of people with disabilities. That is a very, very, very bad figure we can say. Now we should work to bring those people in many different spheres of society. In employment we can see some improvement in the few years, starting ten years ago, the government started encouraging corporations to hire disabled people. There is a percentage of 6%, if you have 20 people you have to hire disabled people. In the beginning it was very, very difficult, but now a lot of corporations are saying that they are disabled friendly and they are trying to bring those people in work. But what I can see from that is it’s not just hiring people; it’s also giving them the opportunity to express their talents, their skills, and earning money like the other employees.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, there are quotas for disabled employees. What happens if an organisation with more than 20 people don’t employ 6%?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý They have to pay taxes, and many, many of them are paying taxes.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What about transport and getting around? We’ve talked a lot about access on the Â鶹Éç around the Paralympics and around spectators struggling a little bit. What do disabled Parisians and disabled French people find?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think transportation is the biggest challenge that people are facing, especially in Paris. The Metro in Paris there are less than 3% of the Parisian Metro that is accessible to people with a wheelchair. Almost every week I’m facing a big challenge whether the lift doesn’t work, whether there is nobody to display the ramp to access the train or the Metro. It is always bad stories about that, and many different people with different disabilities are facing the same.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I am noticing being in France how helpful everyone has been, in Paris the taxi drivers, the hotel people. Do you think by people all over the world talking about Paris accessibility will that help them to move things forward and change it?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think so. I really think that what we need is to shed the light outside of France so that we know everywhere in the world what’s going on here. And since French people don’t like to be pinpointed for doing things wrong I think they’ll do something.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We’re coming towards the closing ceremony now, Deza, do you think it’s been positive? Are we ending this Paris Paralympics on a positive note?

DEZA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, things are changing, but they are changing slowly. I would like to go quicker. But I’m sure that we are going to arrive to something positive in the years to come.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Deza Nguembock, thank you so much.

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EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý My next conversation is with the big boss himself. It’s the CEO of Paralympics GB, Dave Clarke. Now, he had a bit of a warmup act before we came in: he was taking Gareth Southgate around Paralympics GB House. And then we, Access All, the big guns arrived in the athletes’ lounge and we spoke to Dave Clarke:

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hi Dave.

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hello!

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You sound very chipper. What have you been doing this morning?

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I think it’s important to be chipper when you’re seven days into the Paralympics and the team are doing so well.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, second on the medal table, that’s extraordinary, isn’t it?

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. Look, we’re very, very happy. I think everyone sort of looks back to London in the UK and we look how we did there, the crowds and everything that was going on in London. And what I always say to people is that, you know, the performances in London, as amazing as they were, if you won a gold medal there the time probably wouldn’t get you on the podium in Paris. So, the fact that the standards have gone up is incredible, but the fact that we’re maintaining our performance and our athletes are doing such an incredible job is superb.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was speaking to Callie-Ann Warrington yesterday who’d won silver in her swimming final, and she was saying that she worked full time until fairly recently and has gone down to part time, but is still working as a radiographer. Which I’d kind of forgotten that some of the athletes in the Olympics and the Paralympics work outside of being an athlete. Is that something that needs to change?

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I think it’s a matter of personal choice. All of our athletes who are on World Class Programmes receive World Class funding through the National Lottery, and distributed via the government through UK Sport. But of course if people believe that they are able to combine that with work – you mentioned being a radiographer, I would say that’s an incredibly important role, something that someone’s studied for very hard and is a really important role in society – then one would hope that they would be able to continue to do that as well. So, I think it is a matter of personal choice. I think most of our athletes these days who are on the World Class Programme would be full time. Of course there were a number of situations within the Olympics where athletes were going back to start doctors positions and various roles in society. So, I do think it’s up to individuals to choice. But the World Class Programme does provide really strong funding for those who want to be full-time athletes.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, that’s really interesting. How has interest been in this Paralympics? What have the ticket sales been like? What important people have you had? What’s the interest like from the UK and from Paris?

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s been incredible, it’s been incredible. I mean, I was in Atlanta 1996 where we probably got an hour’s magazine programme every night on the Â鶹Éç. The whole vibe around the Paralympics has changed. Out of 2.5 million tickets available I understand that there’s only 100,000 left.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s a lot of tickets.

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m pretty certain they will have gone now, because what’s happened they think is very similar to London, is that Parisians have realised as they went away during the Olympics because they thought it was going to be chaos in Paris, they’ve kind of gone, oh wow, we missed out on something there, we missed out on these incredible historic venues, we missed out on the spirit. So, they’re coming along. And it’s great, every single stadium I’ve been in for whatever games I’ve been in it’s been absolutely packed out, so that’s fantastic. Our Prime Minister joined us at the opening ceremony; the first Prime Minister to come to an away Paralympics, which was absolutely incredible. We had the Sports Minister here with us, Steph Peacock for about three days, who just couldn’t get enough of what’s going on out here. And then really importantly Lisa Nandy, the Secretary of State for DCMS was here and able to witness our equal play film and really give some strong commitments around the availability of sport for disabled kids in school. And then finally towards the back of this week we have our royal patron, the Duke of Edinburgh, with his wife the Duchess, and the Disability Minister, Stephen Timms will be out here as well.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s a lot of important people to wine and dine, Dave Clarke, isn’t it?

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Not a lot of wining going on.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Laughs]

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The only whining you’ll find is me making the odd point that we want changing. But it’s really important to have that platform and that people are interested and they’re here genuinely to find out what we’re doing, find out what we think, and that’s super important. And I suppose the other cohort I should mention, there’s a massive amount of support here on the ground from the UK: 28% of all tickets sold internationally are to British fans.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Tell me about the legacy. We always talk about the legacy of the Paralympics, but you at Paralympics GB have been campaigning for children to get more PE at school. Are you hoping that this Games will encourage that and increase that?

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I think what’s really important is that we fly the flag for every disabled person. When I was competing it was always a little bit of a difficult one with the disabled community because people weirdly decided that well, if those guys can do what they do then why can’t you, sort of thing. And no one would ever think of saying to Usain Bolt’s neighbour, why can’t you run as fast as Usain Bolt. So, there was always that ridiculous pressure. But what we want to do is turn that completely on its head and say look, we at Paralympics GB we’re doing what we do at the elite level of sport, but we want to fly the flag for every disabled person. And our particular angle on this is around the inclusion and understanding of disability but within a sporting context, as well as that wider piece around society. So, it’s really important to us that we launched our Social Impact Strategy which has at the heart of it the Equal Play campaign, which is about ensuring that the three out of four disabled kids who don’t currently do regular sport in school get the opportunity and the choice to do so.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And why is it so important for a disabled kid to do PE or do sport? I’ve talked to a couple of disabled people over the last couple of days who said they didn’t have PE. I did because I was at a special school. But what does it mean going forward for disabled people if they have the opportunity to try different things when they’re young?

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ll slightly flip the question: why is it important for kids to do PE? That should be the end of it, right. If it’s important for kids to do PE, which I believe it is for all sorts of reasons, for social reasons, mobility, technical skills, psychology, there’s a whole raft of reasons why doing PE, moving, being active is good for you. And it’s really important that that’s done inclusively so that everybody can get involved. But if we’ve decided it’s good enough for kids then that means all kids. And that was something that Lisa Nandy was very strong on. When she said every child, she means every child. So, we don’t need to put a new lens on it because it’s disabled. If it’s good for kids it’s good for disabled kids.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But why are these disabled kids not getting PE? Is it health and safety? And how do you get past that?

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I think there’s a whole raft of reasons. And first of all, this is not about bashing teachers and schools. This is about providing the right resources, providing the right training. And also only about half a percent, from our studies, of teachers would identify as having a disability. So, there’s a real lack of lived experience with disability within our schools. We need to provide them with the resources and the training so that they do feel confident in creating an inclusive lesson. There are Paralympic champions here who are only here by virtue of a random conversation that took place in their teens. That cannot be. We’re not saying that everyone needs to be a Paralympian, we’re not saying that everyone needs to be an elite sport; but every disabled person should have the choice whether to be sporty and active or not.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We’re fast approaching the closing ceremony of the Paralympic Games now. What happens after that for the athletes and for the Paralympics GB behind the scenes team?

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Look, it’s been a phenomenal couple of weeks. Paris and France have really shone, and I think it’s been an incredible festival of sport. For athletes we’ll have that moment of reflection during the closing ceremony, and then it will be a great party. And then we’ll all head back and then we will have our homecoming, which is going to be up in Birmingham, which we’re really excited about. And that will be an opportunity for friends and family, team members to get together and celebrate what’s just happened. But we also have our Change Maker Programme, which means that lots of our Paralympic athletes will go into schools, will go into sports centres, will do exactly as their Olympic counterparts did and go back to the places that made them and the places that developed them and really show off their medals, show off their successes. But also try and be that shining light for future people to get the opportunity to play sport.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý David Clarke, CEO of Paralympics GB, thank you so much.

DAVID-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you.

MUSIC-

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It has been the most amazing time, the most amazing three days in Paris. But it does have to come to an end, and it’s about to do that here in Gard du Nord, one of the big train stations in Paris. I’m standing on a platform overlooking all the trains, about to get my Eurostar back to London. But it has just been really, really wonderful. I’ve had a great time at Paralympics GB House speaking to the fabulous medallists; going to the events, like swimming and athletics. The atmosphere was just electric. The sound in the stadiums was just ears-ringing loud with the roaring, and so many British fans as well.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thanks a million to Beth Rose and to Karen Golightly for their help to put all this together in Paris. If you want to hear any of our other episodes you can find them on Â鶹Éç Sounds on the Access All feed; just search for that in there. If you want to get in touch with us please do, we’re accessall@bbc.co.uk on email, and on socials, Instagram and X, formerly known as Twitter, we are @Â鶹ÉçAccessAll. See you next time. Bye bye. Ìý

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