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30th October 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 131

Presented by Emma Tracey

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Have you been watching Strictly? Chris McCausland, fellow blind person, is still there. He was bottom of the leaderboard last week, got three nines the week before, it’s so exciting. Here’s what happened last week:

[Clip]

CHRIS-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There’s so many things that you’ve got to do with the bottom half of your body. And the top half of your body has kind of got to pretend nothing’s happening.

CLAUDIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh gosh.

CHRIS-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And too much bounce has been the story of the week, hasn’t it?DIANNE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think I said when we were dancing, ‘Stop bouncing’. I’m saying to Chris, and this is all he’s going off, I’m saying, ‘Right, turn your feet out the opposite way to where you’re going. I want you to bounce, but not really bounce. I want you to do a hip rotation the opposite to where we’re going’. So, it’s just completely contradicting everything I’m saying.

CHRIS-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And none of it makes any sense [laughter].

DIANNE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s really tough.

[End of clip]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That sounds so stressful and, as Chris says, makes absolutely no sense to me. He was doing a tricky samba. A couple of the contestants have already left straight after their sambas so he was pretty worried this week. They talked about bouncing, they talked about turning their feet a certain direction, bouncing but not bouncing. I mean, what does that mean?! I feel like I’m quite a bouncy person, but I don’t feel other people walking or other people dancing. I just don’t go round feeling people’s legs, it’s just not part of my day-to-day life. It’s not in my list, my long, long to-do list: go feel people’s legs, see what they’re doing, are they bouncing when they walk, are they bouncing when they dance. It just doesn’t happen, just doesn’t happen. But then when it comes to someone asking my legs to do something I’ve got no point of reference. And I do have a really big important event coming up where I will need to dance, not in front of everybody on stage but in a group, and I feel like now Chris is doing so well on Strictly everyone will be looking at me and have higher expectations of my dancing. So, yeah, thanks Chris.

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Theme music.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s Access All, your weekly injection of news and talk on disability, mental health and everything in that ballpark. Now, this week the UK budget has just happened and the US elections are just about to, so let’s dig right down deep into these big events and focus on the parts that disabled people care about most. I’m Emma Tracey, stay with me.

There’s less than a week to go before US citizens head to the polls to vote for their next president. The race is between former president, Donald Trump, and current vice president, Kamala Harris. The polls say it’s neck and neck. There are over 40 million disabled voters in the US, and 7.1 million of those live in those seven key swing states. They are the battleground where the election will be won or lost for both candidates. Now, I want to learn a bit more about what the candidates are offering to disabled people in the US, and I’ve got a couple of people with me who will be able to answer that question, a couple of policy experts, disabled people. Joining me is Melissa Ortiz who worked for Donald Trump in his administration and now runs Capability Consulting, which advises on disability policy. Hi, Melissa.

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hi, thanks for having me, Emma.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No problem. And we’ve also got Mia Ives Rublee who is a disability activist and also a policy expert. And she is supporting Kamala Harris. Hello, Mia.

MIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hello, thank you so much for having me.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Mia, why should disabled people vote for Kamala Harris?

MIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think that this is going to be one of the most consequential elections that we are going to have in our lifetime. And I say that as an individual who identifies as a woman, as disabled, as an immigrant. Kamala Harris has had a record of supporting disabled people. She has met with many in the disability community and has been an excellent ally to the community. She has multiple plans in place for her if she becomes elected, including ensuring that disabled women have access to reproductive healthcare and also receive fair wages and access to home care.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Amazing, thank you Mia. Melissa, why should disabled people vote for Donald Trump?

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý People with disabilities should vote for Donald Trump because he does care. He is not one to show that caring in a public fashion. He will surround himself with policymakers and policy wonks, as we’re called, who will advise him on the best possible policies to support people with disabilities being fully integrated in their least restrictive environment in their community.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Mia, what do you envisage for the disability community if Trump gets in?

MIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý My concerns have been towards the dismissiveness that the Trump campaign has had towards communities like mine. And my worry is the way that the Trump administration had continued try to basically destroy Medicaid. Medicaid is one of the number one programmes that disabled people in particular utilise to get their services. Medicaid is a federal insurance for individuals of low income, and in particular for disabled people. I have been on Medicaid. I don’t know if Melissa has been on Medicaid, but a lot of disabled people rely on Medicaid, and it provides a payment to be able to receive healthcare. And it is the number one provider of healthcare for disabled people. It also provides home care support for individuals in their homes.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay. And Harris wants to expand it?

MIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes. Harris is looking at various ways to get it paid.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Melissa, let’s talk about Medicaid. You’re working on the policy behind the scenes, but in this campaign people are listening to what Trump is saying and what Harris is saying.

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He’s not saying as much as he needs to be saying, and I’ve been banging on the doors for that.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But also, Melissa, some people might be curious to know how you could back a man who has said what many would feel are horrible things about various disabled people. I mean, the stories are really well known.

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý They’re very well documented. Trump is from Queens, which is one of the boroughs in New York city, and my husband happens to be from Queens, and I’ve got to tell you the blue-collar community in Queens, Trump may wear $5,000 suits but he still talks like a blue-collar worker from Queens.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, like a working class person we might say in the UK?

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Very much so. And my experience with working class has been that what they don’t understand or what makes them uncomfortable they try to make into a joke. And that doesn’t make it right but it happens, and it happens on both sides of the eye.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Mia, we talked about what Trump is accused of saying about disabled people, what we’ve seen him say about disabled people. There’s an article in The 19th, which is an American news site, and they reported on a meeting that Harris hosted for disabled voters. The 19th reported that some disabled people were frustrated with the meeting; they felt that there wasn’t enough said about policy and that there was a lack of substance and that it was light on detail. And not being good on the detail is something that’s been thrown at Harris often. What would you say about that?

MIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was on that video. I think that the event could have gone better. I always feel like events can go better. The point of the video was to talk about disability and to talk about the importance of voting. So, that was the exact point of the video. And our hope had been to be able to do another event later on with more detail.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But obviously the disabled people, some of them on that video call expected to be able to discuss policies that were relevant to them. And that reportedly didn’t happen so much. Is that worrying for disabled voters?

MIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Of course. The people that are watching it are the ones who tell you what you need to do better for next time. And I’m very appreciative of hearing from them on what could have been better and what we need to do next.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Melissa, at least Harris had an event like this. I’ve not seen any knowledge or any reporting of Trump having a similar event.

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He has had events held in private. For somebody that grandstands the way that he does, and I’m not saying anything that anybody else wouldn’t say, he’s been very respectful of people and not wanted to make it look like he was pandering to anyone. There have been events held very quietly behind the scenes to which people with disabilities across the political spectrum have been invited. And going back to the point of not enough details on the Harris events, why weren’t there details? Because Biden knew he was running for re-election; why wasn’t he already prepared with that so that all he had to do was hand it over to vice president Harris with a nice little bow on top of it and say, okay here’s the disability policy, tweak it the way you want it to go and go for it?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think it’s really interesting to hear the difference between Trump in private and Trump in public.

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s very much so.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’ve been in the Oval Office with him, you’ve spoken to him. If he’s so different in private what is he like as a person?

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I actually met the president before he was ever the president. My husband is a native New Yorker, and I moved there after I married him in 2002. In three days I went to a new city with a new job and a new husband.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Just like me, I moved to London when I was 23 just exactly like that, so we’ve got something in common.

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay. Within 48 hours of getting married, so it was crazy.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wow, that’s a whirlwind. You met Trump there?

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I met him there. But he’s very business-like. There’s something that happens with him when the little light goes on and the camera, and everybody says it. And we all used to stand in the wings and go, did he just say what I think he just said, in front of the camera.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, what’s he like in private then? If he’s like that in front of the camera what’s he like in private?

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He’s measured. He’s forthright. He looks you in the eye when he’s talking to you. He’s not looking to the next person to see who he can find to talk to, which I value you that. And he won me over the very first time that I ever met him because he sat down to talk to me.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay, so you’re a wheelchair user?

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I am a wheelchair user. And I fortunately have a chair that will raise me 11 inches. But I didn’t have that chair at that time, I have it now. When I went in the Oval Office he looked at me, and he and I had been following each other on Twitter since it was a thing, and he said, ‘Well, if it isn’t DC Bell on wheels, how are you, dear?’.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay, so he was kind to you.

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Pulled me right over by the desk. Yes, he was very kind.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Mia, I feel like you want to come in here?

MIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I know that other people’s experiences have been much different, so I’m glad that you’ve had some good experiences.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý In what way have other people’s experiences, in what way have they told you that it’s been different?

MIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He didn’t want to take photos with disabled veterans, and his general demeanour. But most of that demeanour that I’ve seen of course has been out in public.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Melissa Ortiz and Mia Ives Rublee, thank you so much for joining me.

MIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you so much for having us.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And Melissa Ortiz, thank you for joining me.

MELISSA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thanks for the opportunity. Always good to be with Mia and to meet you as well.

MUSIC-Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý ÌýÌý

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Chancellor Rachel Reeves has ended weeks of speculation and spent over an hour in the House of Commons delivering her budget – that’s the government’s financial plan. It’s the first Labour budget in 14 years. And in the lead up we were told that tough measures were needing to be taken to plug a £22 billion black hole. So, how will these measures impact disabled people? We’ve heard the budget. Now I’m with two people who have been listening and watching very closely to chat all this through. There’s Bethany Dawson from Politico.

BETHANY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hello, thank you so much for having me.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And we’ve got James Taylor, head of policy at disability charity Scope.

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hi, thanks for having me.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Now, both of you are really, really into disability policy, into politics; you’re going to have loads of thoughts on this. What were you expecting from the budget, Bethany, and were your predictions in relation to disability accurate?

BETHANY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, we were quite lucky when it came to predictions because so much of the budget was pre-briefed. Within that we knew that healthcare and welfare was going to be a massive topic, partially because the NHS is struggling so much. And also welfare with the government’s missions for growth and for getting more people back to work, we knew that there was going to be a big shake-up of the welfare system and making sure that more people who are out of work for health related reasons can work. And also looking at that benefits system, who is entitled to benefits, how much people can get. And all those marks were hit.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What about you, James?

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Completely agree. But I think there were some things that weren’t perhaps on the bingo card: so big increase in funding for special educational needs, which has been under-invested for such a long time; and extension of the household support fund, which is a localised fund which can prevent crisis situations happening.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Right. Well, let’s dig into some of the things that you’ve talked about already and some of the things you haven’t actually, because one of the really big announcements Rachel Reeves talked about the national living wage. Let’s take a listen:[Clip]

RACHEL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý As promised in our manifesto, we asked the Low Pay Commission to take account of the cost of living for the first time. I can confirm that we will accept the Low Pay Commission recommendation to increase the national living wage by 6.7% to £12.21 an hour [cheers].

[End of clip]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I mean, James, what do you think of the rise in minimum wage?

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, it’s a good thing. We know lots of disabled people are stuck in insecure work, or often get jobs for which they’re overly qualified for, but also are able to do work that’s flexible. So, I think a rise in the wages is a positive thing for all low-paid workers, of which we know disabled people are disproportionately in that group.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, absolutely. Well, let’s go on to the Work Capability Assessment, the test that some people have to do to see whether they’re fit for work or not, and then depending on the results of that test it indicates what work benefits they can get. Let’s hear a clip of the Chancellor talking about that:

[Clip]

RACHEL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We inherited the last government’s plans to reform the Work Capability Assessment. We will deliver those savings as part of our fundamental reforms to the health and disabilities benefits system.

[End of clip]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I mean, the Conservatives planned to scrap the Work Capability Assessment, then they planned to change some of the descriptors, so some of the things that people needed to be able to do or not do to get the benefits relating to that. Will Labour will just pick up, Bethany, where the Conservatives left off? I don’t know if it was that clear in the budget.

BETHANY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý This is the problem with one of these massive events, the detail on these really specific policy areas is sometimes lacking. The hope is that soon we’re going to get more details on this. But we know that this is an incredibly contentious topic area as so many people who go through the Work Capability Assessments feel as though they’re not accurately heard, they’re not respected, and they disagree with the outcomes, often going to tribunal. The hope is for disabled people that reforms around the Work Capability Assessment will make that easier. But we do kind of have to wait for more details going forward.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. And James, there were some changes announced for people on Universal Credit as well.

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Universal Credit and other working age benefits will increase by 1.7% from April, so that’s an increase of about £150 on average, which again is positive news for people on low incomes.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And they’ve also announced some measures for bringing more people into work as well, haven’t they?

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý They’ve announced, well this was trailed on Monday, around £340 million to invest in what DWP and the Treasury are calling trailblazers, which is a much more localised way of delivering employment support, working with local communities, local public services and, crucially, understanding the local context to support young people, support disabled people, support people with long-term health conditions.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And are there positives and negatives for disabled people in bringing that more local and bringing in these specific people?

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The positive is it can be much more tailored and personalised, rather than a big national employment support system; you can now have ones that are flexible to local economies and local job markets. The challenge is whether this is still going to be delivered through the Job Centre. We know lots of people have poor experiences, we know people don’t feel like their work coach really understands their condition and how it might impact on their employment. So, it’s great that the government are announcing investment in local support, but if that support is delivered in the same way that it always has been it’s hard to see how the outcome can improve.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay. Now, Rachel Reeves announced an increase to carer’s allowance:

[Clip]

RACHEL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Today I can confirm that we are increasing the weekly earnings limit to the equivalent of 16 hours at the national living wage per week [cheers], the largest increase in carer’s allowance since it was introduced in 1976 [cheers]. This means that a carer can now earn over £10,000 a year while receiving carer’s allowance.

[End of clip]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What differences are the changes that the chancellor announced to carer’s allowance going to make to disabled people and their families, their spouses, the people who live with them, the people who support them, Bethany?

BETHANY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, the main change is that carers can now earn more money whilst receiving carer’s allowance. This is kind of crucial for two things: firstly the money in their pockets, supporting families; but secondly, we’ve seen the scandal around carers having to fight this overpayment system where if you earn too much money you then have to return the whole sum of your carer’s allowance, even if you earn one penny over the previous allowance. Now, they’re going to do a review of this. This was something we knew already knew was going to happen, but it was formally announced today that a review of this carer’s overpayment system would be reviewed so that people don’t need to panic about juggling both working and caring responsibilities.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But it’s a review rather than removing that cliff edge and rather than fixing the problem. Some people are going to say that that’s going to take too long and why do they need a review in the first place when they know the issue.

BETHANY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Absolutely. Red tape is something that we often hear critics complaining about of governments, both this one and of previous Conservative ones. And so there will be concern of what a review will look like, how long it will then take to implement the conclusions of that review that they have promised it. There’s a lot of investment here, and there are big, big sums of money. Those cultural changes that disabled people often discuss, whether that’s not being understood, not being heard, carers indeed here not feeling understood and heard, are one of the things that the wheels need to keep turning to make sure there can be these bigger cultural shifts.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, is it understandable that there’s a review then because of needing to listen to carers and needing to take their views on board in a kind of structured way? Is there a big political reason or a big reason, do we think either of you, why they’ve not just jumped in and tried to fix the problem in this budget?

BETHANY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, the government, this government particularly really pushes back on big quick changes, because they say they want to do it right. And I think people can agree that if a policy change happened in, let’s say 2024, you don’t want to have to make more changes in 2025 and 2026 to get it right. The government says that they want to make these changes after thorough reviews, knowing the details and they can do it correctly. The issue is that takes time.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, James, has the government been listening to disabled people when they’ve talked about the issues they’re having with energy bills and the cost of living and levels of poverty? Is there anything in this budget that will help disabled people with their bills?

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, there’s a couple of things that we’ve talked about: the household support fund; we’ve talked about some positive improvements to Universal Credit; an uprating for working age benefits; there’s investment in the NHS, in schools, in public services. I think this is all good stuff, all positive individual things. I think the big thing for us as Scope and for people who interact with the welfare system is a recognition that actually this system is really inadequate and leaves people destitute, poor, out of work. And what we’ve got from the chancellor is a commitment to take forward the previous government’s plan to save £3.5 billion, £3.6 billion on disability benefits, but no detail on how that’s going to happen. And I think we’re concerned that when you start with how much you need to save rather than what does this system need to do it leads to all sorts of difficulties and challenges.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, something else that we’ve talked about an awful lot on this podcast, we’ve talked endlessly to families and parents and young people, is special educational needs and disabilities and education and health support plans, healthcare support plans. And the chancellor did announce a £1 billion uplift to the SEND, special educational needs and disabilities funding, a 6% increase. I mean, what does that mean? How significant is that? There’s a massive shortfall in that area, isn’t there, Bethany?

BETHANY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There are two ways to look at it: one way is saying the shortfall is £1 billion, so that kind of bridges the gap, right? But the total debt is £3.2 billion. So, depending on how you look at it the problem is either totally or partially fixed. That isn’t something you would necessarily expect to hear in a budget; they announce a lot of things, a lot of policy, a lot of numbers. But families who are really depending on this uptick in funding for SEND are still going to have a lot of questions, even if their nerves are somewhat quelled at this time.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. What would you guys liked to have seen included in the budget that wasn’t? James, there was no mention of personal independence payments.

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There was no mention of personal independence payments, which I think is probably a good thing.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, why is it good that PIP wasn’t mentioned today?

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I think every time PIP has been mentioned it’s been in reference to a cut.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay.

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, that is just my personal view that it’s positive. I think we need to wait and see what the government are going to bring forward.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And PIP of course is the non-means tested benefit that disabled people can apply for to help with the extra costs of being disabled, of which Scope has shown again recently that there are many and varied and cost. What’s the extra cost now of being disabled that Scope’s come up with recently?

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The average extra cost for a disabled household is now £1,010 per month.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Bethany Dawson from Politico, and James Taylor, head of policy at disability charity Scope, thank you.

JAMES-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you.

BETHANY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you.

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