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25th February 2025

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 148

Presented by Emma Tracey

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EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý How does being on the waves make you feel, Phil?

PHIL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Totally relaxed and comfortable and forget all your problems.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Maybe I should take surfing up myself, to be honest. I’m Emma Tracey, and this is Access All. And Phil, you have set up a surf group on the Welsh coast called Ocean Therapy, which you reckon helps people with mental health challenges. And your group focuses particularly on people who are over 50. What do you find therapeutic about surfing?

PHIL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý A lot of it is the fact you’re in the water, what I call and a lot of people that use the ocean as therapy called blue mind: when you’re near the water or when you’re in the sea you feel calm or more relaxed.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Blue mind.

PHIL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, all exercise is good, but exercise outdoors has been proven to be better. Then you bring in the community aspect because you’re part of a group. You are learning new skills. Your self-esteem improves. So, it’s generally all beneficial to you.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wow, you’re really selling it to me. But what inspired you then to set up Ocean Therapy?

PHIL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý 2018, 2019 I was off work on long-term sick leave, and that long-term sick leave led me into a depression. I was actually seeing a counsellor, and like a typical bloke I did not engage; I sat there just one-word answers. But one thing that stood out was that she said to me, ‘What have you done for yourself today or this week?’ and I said, ‘Oh I took my son to this and that’. And then she stopped me and said, ‘No, what have you actually done for yourself?’ and it turns out that I hadn’t. So, she then asked me what did I really enjoy and I said surfing, so she said, ‘Right, you should go surfing because that’s what you enjoy’. And I started going again and instantly felt better. Then my wife could see the improvement in me and she said, ‘Right, it’s helped you, you should do this for other people’.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And why have you focused on the over-50s?

PHIL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I originally started off working just with men, for the reasons I basically described, that men tend not to engage in traditional therapies. And the surf therapy lends itself to a lot of talking in between waves. Swansea City Council offered some funding to do activities through the summer for young people or over-50s. And they loved the idea because most of the other activities were things like chair yoga, sedentary, and they loved the fact that it was aimed at over-50s but active and outdoors. And it was really popular and it just got busier and busier. Most of them that have joined up have said that they do suffer with anxiety, depression, various other mental health issues, and that the fact that we focus on that side of it as well has attracted them to the group.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Brilliant. Phil Owen, thanks for joining me. Surfs up. On with the show!

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Theme music.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hello, I’m Emma Tracey and this is Access All, surfing the waves of disability and mental health to bring you the best news and guests from all over the world. Wherever on this Earth that you happen to be listening to us from tell us your story, and tell us what you think we should be covering. You can find us on social media @Â鶹ÉçAccessAll on X and Instagram. Our email is accessall@bbc.co.uk. And you can send us a voice message or a text message on WhatsApp on 0330 123 9480.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Later I speak to 18 year-old Irish actress with cerebral palsy, it’s Niamh Moriarty. We’ll talk about going from her TV debut in Â鶹Éç drama, Best Interests, to being a bully on the big screen in the film, September Says.

But first, this week marks three years since Russia invaded Ukraine. Over those years Access All has spoken to disabled Ukrainians affected by the war, and also looked at the mental health impact it has had on people living there. Remember last year we met Oleksii and his mum, Raisa. Well, I’m delighted to say that we are about to catch up with them. Hi Raisa and hi Oleksii.

OLEKSII-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hi.

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hi.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We’ve also got human rights journalist, Sara Cincurova. Sara’s travelled to Ukraine several times alongside NGOs, and recently visited a specialist school in the south of the country. Hi, Sara.

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hello.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Let’s start with you, Oleksii and Raisa. Now, last May, Raisa, you told me your story. But just to recap, Oleksii has a learning disability, and when the war started his group home in Kyiv closed. He relocated to Denmark, before returning to Ukraine and to his group home which had reopened. Raisa, you run a charity, Djerela, and that is designed to support people like Oleksii who have learning disabilities. How have you been since we spoke to you last?

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Continuing my work where we provide services of respite care, short-term psychological rehabilitation. Particularly important is the psychological rehabilitation because now people with learning disabilities and also their mothers they suffer from insomnia because of the night air attacks.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Now, I’m going to talk to Oleksii himself in a second, but can you tell me how you feel he’s been since resettling back in his original group home?

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m happy that he’s resettled back because he had been in the group home since 2006, so quite a lot of time. It was a tragedy that the group home stopped because he feels that is his home. We often meet, we speak on the telephone every day.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And are the bombs and the sirens still affecting Oleksii? Because I remember last time they were having a big impact on him, weren’t they?

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think so. And also the staff of the group home they said he has more behavioural problems since the war started.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay. Now, Oleksii, I’m going to go to you. And we’ve got Irena here from the Ukrainian service at the Â鶹Éç who’s going to translate my words for Oleksii and Oleksii’s words for me. Oleksii, what are the good things at the home?

OLEKSII-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Peace and quiet.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Do you have friends at your home?

OLEKSII-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, Valeria, Volva, Sasha, good friends.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What do you do together?

OLEKSII-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We are doing shopping together, we are cleaning, we are doing a lot of things together. We are doing nuts for soldiers, provisions for soldiers, it’s great.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wow, so you’re doing work for Ukrainian soldiers. That’s really, really interesting. Oleksii, I’m to talk to your mum a little bit more now. Raisa, you’re living at the respite centre that you run 100 miles away from Oleksii. Do you ever think of bringing him back to live with you? Would that be suitable?

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý When he comes I meet him and we just communicate. When he is here in the respite home I am happy that he is here.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Is he better staying where he is with his friends than being with you all of the time?

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s better for him because he’s used to the routine when his time is structured, when somebody is running his activities, managing his activities. I have my disability, my physical disability myself and so I can’t pay that much attention as he needs.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay. You have a physical disability, tell me about that?

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I had oncological treatment which affected my cardiovascular system, and since then I have disability.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay, you can’t run around?

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I need more rest. And he can’t stand that; he needs everything planned to happen. And so when I have some deterioration it’s a stress for him, so it’s better for him to be in a group.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And there’s always going to be staff and there’s always going to be something for him to do. Raisa and Oleksii, can you stay with us for a little bit? I’m going to talk to Sara for a minute and then we’re going to come back to you. Sara, you’ve been listening to Raisa and to Oleksii and their story, is that something that you’ve heard from other families on your visits to Ukraine?

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, definitely. I’ve spent a lot of amazing moments in Ukraine, but at the same time I’ve also seen a lot of difficulties that these families have to go through.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And you recently visited a special school in the south of the country.

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I recently visited a special school in Kryvyi Rih called Inspiration. It’s a school for children with special needs and with disabilities, particularly with intellectual disabilities. There’s nearly 300 pupils and they all go to school, and the parents are very, very happy about it, because many of the parents that I spoke to told me they are very afraid for the children. However, in this school the school is very safe because it provides a safe shelter for the children that was repaired thanks to an NGO called People in Need. So, now there is furniture and heating and electricity and toilets and all these things. And essentially what happens is whenever there is an air raid, which happens all the time, all the children go to the shelter.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Right. And is that really unusual? Do a lot of children learn online?

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It is required by law, by legal text, so that whenever there is an air raid the children have to interrupt their learning process so that they can hide. And if the school cannot provide that then the children have to stay online. For many children with disabilities this just doesn’t work, so it’s really interesting that they are able to continue the whole process from the shelter that now looks like a school; they don’t have to interrupt classes all the time. Because in this part of Ukraine the air raids go off literally several times a day every day.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. You spoke to lots of the children from the school and to their parents as well, what are the children’s understanding of the war?

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, some parents will say that the children can only understand what’s happening based on how the parents react. So, if the parents show that they are very scared, for example, or very frightened then the children will know. However, I also spoke to one other family with a 14 year-old daughter with an intellectual disability and she understands the war, but like a younger child would. So, she can understand that there’s soldiers and there’s planes and rockets and drones, but she does not understand what’s really going on. And many of the parents that I’ve spoken to expressed worry. For example, the mum of this little girl she is very worried about the war spreading. So, right now Kryvyi Rih is some 60kms away from the frontline, but the mum was saying if the frontline moves and one day we are in the middle of the warzone and my 14 year-old daughter with an intellectual disability is here and she’s confronted with, say, Russian soldiers who might want to hurt her that’s the worst.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, are you talking about Eva and her mum, Anastasia?

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, that’s correct.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Tell me about them?

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I met Eva and Anastasia in the school. Anastasia is 35 years old, Eva is her elder daughter, she also has a younger boy. Eva has an intellectual disability and also epilepsy.

[Clip]

ANASTASIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý [Via translator] hello, my name is Anastasia, my daughter is Eva. She’s in 8th class. She needs to attend a school for children with special needs since she has a moderate intellectual disability.

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Does she understand what’s happening?

ANASTASIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý She understands in a very primitive way. She understands it like a small child, five or six years old. War is when someone attacks someone, okay. Okay. As the day goes by she asks the same questions, ‘Mama, is this an air raid? Is there a rocket flying by? Is this our soldier or not our soldier? What is it that is flying there?’ She cannot be stressed because that could lead to an epileptic fit etc. Children like her have to be protected from any stress, but how to do it I don’t know.

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What are your thoughts about the future? What is her life going to be like when she’s, say, 20 years old?

ANASTASIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý She will likely always live with me. She will probably never have a regular life in terms of work, marriage and children. She will live with me. And what will happen when I die? That’s the question I ask myself at times.

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý If the war came to Kryvyi Rih would you leave? Would you go abroad?

ANASTASIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý If there was only 10 square metres of Ukraine left I would go there. Even if it was a small village, but it would be Ukrainian.

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Do you like school? Do you have friends at school?

EVA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, Dina, Sasha, Artur. But right now Dina is at home.

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Are there air raids often?

EVA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It kicks off loudly and I feel fear.

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And when you go to the shelter then you’re not afraid anymore?

EVA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, when it ends I’m content.

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Do you get scared when you hear explosions?

EVA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, of course I get scared, when I hear those sounds I feel distressed. But they give me medications and the stress disappears.

ANASTASIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Eva is on anti-epilepsy treatment. Ìý

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What do you like to do on the weekends?

EVA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý On the weekends I go and see my grandpa.

[End of clip]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What else did they tell you?

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I’ve spoken with a group of parents. A lot of the parents mentioned that their children might have achieved some academic achievements prior to the war, and then the war came and it kind of slowed the development down.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Sara, you’ve been travelling to Ukraine for a number of years, and the World Bank says that within the first 18 months since the invasion around 300,000 more people became registered as disabled. What kind of changes have you noticed and seen?

SARA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I have visited a centre for people, for adults with disabilities a year ago in the suburb of Kyiv, the capital, and I was very sad to see that so many people really struggle financially. So, depending on the type of the disability, the benefit that Ukrainians with disability receive is equivalent to around maybe 70, 71 euros, and many of the people were saying that it's simply not enough. And I was shocked to hear testimonies of people who said we have to choose between food and medication, or they have children, some of the people would say we have to choose whether we are going to buy medications or nappies or food or pay rent. And a lot of the people who fled from eastern and southern Ukraine, whose houses have been destroyed, end up in IDP centres in central Ukraine or in western Ukraine. However, the benefits they receive are just not enough, and a lot of these people do not receive any support at all because from the outside they now live in, quote unquote, a safe zone or a safer zone than they used to. So, this is something that I’ve heard time and time again.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Another thing I would say is that families with children with disabilities might want to leave, for example flee abroad, but it’s simply not possible because the child needs a routine, for example, or the child is seeing a specialist.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Raisa and Oleksii, do you think disability rights and politics has gone backwards since the war started or has it improved?

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý During the war the number of people placed in institutions grew significantly.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And the plan was before the invasion you and the government were working towards deinstitutionalisation, so taking people out of institutions and into the community, wasn’t that right?

RAISA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý In Ukraine we do not have to speak about deinstitutionalisation; we have to speak about prevention of institutionalisation rather.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay, so stopping people going in in the first place. Oleksii, what are you hoping for in the future for you and your friends?

OLEKSII-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Via translator] We want a lot of things, but we want peace first and foremost so that there are no explosions.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you so much, Oleksii, and thank you Raisa for being here and telling us your story and updating us. And thank you also to Sara for bringing us your contributions from the special school in Ukraine. It’s really, really wonderful and interesting to hear from the people there. Thanks Irena for translating for Oleksii. And if this has piqued your interest and you want to hear more don’t forget about our sister podcast, Ukrainecast, which covers the war and releases several news episodes every week. You can find that on Â鶹Éç Sounds. Why not give it a listen?

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EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý This week’s guest first graced our screens on Â鶹Éç drama Best Interests Written by Jack Thorne and starring Sharon Horgan and Michael Sheen, it follows the heart-wrenching story of what happens to Marnie’s family when the hospital decides that treatment should stop for the teen who has a life-limiting condition. Marnie is played by an Irish 18 year-old, Niamh Moriarty, who has cerebral palsy. But Niamh has loads of other feathers in her cap: she is currently in the film September Says on the big screen, and she’s also hurtling towards her final school exams, the old Leaving Cert – I remember it well. I’m absolutely delighted that Niamh’s taking a break from studying to join me for a wee chat. Hi Niamh.

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hi. Delighted to be here.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, absolutely delighted to have you. How many times have you cleaned your room lately instead of studying?

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Too many. It’s a big problem. I’m not devoted enough to the studies yet, but don’t tell my parents [laughs].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Let’s start, Niamh, with the current film that you’re in, September Says. Tell me a bit about the film and your character.

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, September Says follows two sisters, September and July, and their strange relationship together following on from an event that we don’t get to see until the end of the film, that causes them to leave their hometown. I play Jennifer, who is the stereotypical bully of the film. And it was really exciting for me to do because disabled actors aren’t usually cast in those types of roles; we’re usually typecast in the smiley, happy, cheery role, which I don’t think is an accurate portrayal of who we are as everyday people. We feel angry and frustrated the same as every other person. So, it was really fun to be able to stretch the wings and play a bully for once.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What kinds of bully things did you get to do in the film, can you tell us?

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý My absolute favourite – which I can say because it did make the trailer, so no spoilers here, don’t fire me anybody – but I did get to do an awful lot of what we called the horror scream, which is like a really high-pitched loud scream, when I have my hair chopped off by one of the characters. And that was really fun because our director, the brilliant Ariane Labed, just told me to go for it. And we didn’t tell anyone I would do it on the first take, so it was a real shock to everybody. I had so much fun. It was a real tick off the actor bucket list moment for me.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And was the part written for a disabled person or did they just pick you?

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It wasn’t, no. I think that was something that was so special about this process too was that once I sent in my initial tape to my surprise I got recalled for it. And then I met our director in person, and we had some really brilliant conversations about the character and how we could weave her disability into her story, and how it also didn’t have to be her whole personality. But I think for any people with disabilities who go to watch the film there are certain small details we’ve added in that build this feeling of exclusion, that I think adds to a lot of why she does what she does. So, it was a really fun layer to play with, and the team was so accepting and helpful.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s great. I think that’s really interesting for disabled actors more than non-disabled actors, because you often get to have a bit more of a say and a hand in the story because the director or the producer or the writer are doing this for the first time, so you’re the expert.

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes. It was honestly just such a new experience for me to be able to go into a role that wasn’t originally written for a disabled actor, and to go in and offer my thoughts and also offer advice on how we could make the set accessible and all of those things that people don’t usually think about, but I learnt a lot. Best Interests was my first large-scale project. I had been acting since I was 11 but had never really gotten the opportunity to test the waters on a big set. And so to experience a wheelchair accessible trailer and a team who were so willing and able to help was a first for me. And I took a lot of those lessons with me on to my next projects as to what it was okay to ask for, and also what is available. Because up until working on Best Interests I didn’t even know that there were wheelchair accessible trailers, so that was also something very important to learn.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. Remind us of the story of Best Interests and who Marnie is in the drama?

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, Best Interests is a four-part Â鶹Éç drama. It follows the Lloyds, whose youngest daughter, Marnie, has a life-limiting form of congenital muscular dystrophy. And when we meet them in the story their doctors believe that it is time to cease her life-prolonging treatment. And out of love her family disagrees. You’ve got her mum, played by the ever-brilliant Sharon Horgan, and her dad played by Michael Sheen. And then also it’s a great exploration of the sibling dynamic with disability, with the fabulous Alison Oliver, so it’s a special story.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, that’s actually interesting the disabled sibling and a non-disabled sibling and it’s a really good exploration of that. But it’s a really emotive topic, deciding whether someone should die now or not and whether treatment should be stopped. I mean, to be involved in a story like that at your age how did that feel?

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Honestly I loved every second. The gravity of the story was never lost on us or me in particular. I think it was something very important to carry throughout our filming process. And what stood out to me the most was when we finished and we got to premier the series at the lovely British Film Institute, we got to see first hand the families who had been affected by stories like this and hear the experiences of other people. And it was the first time where I had ever been face to face with someone who was affected by a piece of art that I had made, and that was really special. So, I will never forget that day and the stories that those audience members shared withÌý us.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And did you do some research for Marnie before you played her?

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, absolutely. I think it’s really important that disabled actors play disabled characters. There is also the aspect of Marnie having a different disability to me. I have cerebral palsy and she has congenital muscular dystrophy, so it was very important for me to represent that experience accurately, and I wanted to have their struggles represented that may be different to mine and understand their experiences in a way that maybe I hadn’t before. So, I had done a lot of research and spoken to families and people who had experienced muscular dystrophy, and I was very particular with her physicalities and trying to learn that to the best of my ability with the help of our medical team.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s really interesting actually. And the first time you worked with Jack Thorne was on Tiny Tim in The Christmas Carol.

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What was your version like? I can’t imagine it was little boy with a crutch saying, ‘God bless us everyone’.

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oftentimes in media I think disabled people are portrayed as that perfectly happy, sunshiny, go-lucky character, and that’s something that I would love to try and steer away from. We are people with complex layers. And I remember when I first got the audition for Tiny Tim I had to really think about the stereotyping that he put disabled people in, because I didn’t want him to just be this shiny, happy, go-lucky, positive disabled person; he had to have those layers of challenges as well. And to see that and then be able to take my own experiences into the role for the first time was so important, and definitely taught me a lot going forward in my career.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Tell me how you got into acting in the first place?

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý When I was a kid all of my friends were big into their sports and athleticism, and I felt very left out because I was sitting on the sidelines watching and I couldn’t participate. And I wanted to find my own community and something I loved to do, so I joined my local drama class and started to fall in love with the idea of storytelling. And then I went to see my first ever professional show, which was Matilda, the musical. It had kids in it, and I was like, wait a minute, that’s their job, they get to be hired to do this. And from then on I caught the bug, something switched in my brain, I said that’s what I want to do. And so I worked hard at it, I signed to an agency and I started auditioning. And when I was 13 then I got Tiny Tim, which was a launching pad for me into working with Jack in Best Interests. And from there it’s kind of continued on, so it’s been seven years at this point, but hopefully we’ll keep going.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you so much, Niamh Moriarty, for chatting to me and for listening to the podcast. Because you do listen, don’t you?

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, I’m an avid fan. I’m delighted to be joining you.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I’m so pleased that you listen. And if you could just get everybody in Ireland to subscribe that would be awesome. Thank you very much.

NIAMH-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m on the case.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, fantastic, fantastic. September Says, Niamh’s latest film, is in select cinemas across the UK and Ireland. And Best Interests can still be watched on Â鶹Éç iPlayer in the UK.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wowsers! What is it with disabled teenagers called Niamh knocking it out of the park? We had Niamdh Braid a couple of weeks ago who took her council to tribunal to get the British Sign Language support she needed at school. And that was Niamh Moriarty, what a lovely chat. I think we’ll be seeing a bit more of her in the future for sure. Who else should I be sitting down with? You tell me. Drop me an email, accessall@bbc.co.uk. And if you like what you’ve just heard and if you’re listening on the radio or you haven’t subscribed yet go onto Â鶹Éç Sounds, hit that big subscribe button, and you will get Access All onto your device every single week without doing a thing. Thanks for listening. See you soon. Bye.

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