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16th April 2025

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 156

Presented by Emma Tracey

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EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Do you know what, one of my boys came up to me the other day and said, ‘Mum, I’ve found a YouTuber that I think you’re going to love’. And I said, ‘Who’s that?’. And he said, ‘Um, she’s blind, I think her name’s Lucy’. And I said, ‘Oh, Lucy Edwards, I know her’.

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Theme music.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Lucy has over 2.8 million social media followers. Her content has been viewed over a billion time. I mean, a billion, I almost never get to say that word. Presenter, content creator, author and friend of Access All, she lost her sight at 17 and she’s just written her first children’s book, Ella Jones vs The Sun Stealer. And I’m delighted to say that Lucy Edwards is here to catch us all up on her recent shenanigans.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thanks, Em. It’s always lovely to speak to you, love.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But tell me, do you think a billion people will read your new book?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Ah, hopefully.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Ella Jones vs The Sun Stealer.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Fingers crossed. I mean, maybe not a billion, but I always like to fake it till I make it, so if I say it then hopefully it willÌý happen [laughs]. I love it because we’ve got braille on the cover and there’s an audio description. Our main character, Ella, who’s lost her sight is standing there very proudly with her guide dog, Miss Maisie, who’s based on my guide dog, Miss Molly. And it’s got Miss Maisie here on the front cover and has a fireball in the background, and I just think oh my gosh, I would have loved to have seen a fireball on the front cover of a children’s book when I was this age, or have it audio described to be rather. And then, yeah, we’ve also got a NaviLens code. So, I don’t know, I’m just really proud of it. And I’m sitting here like, oh my god, it’s actually happened [laughs].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, well you deserve it absolutely.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Tell me about the story?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We’ve got Ella. Ella is just a lovely little girl who lost her eyesight a couple of years back. She’s 12. And I didn’t want her to be a superhero; I wanted the world around her to change because I really subscribe to the theory of just the social model of disability where I want the world around us to be fixed and not us as a person. There was a lot of internalised ableism that I battled with as a young girl when I was Ella’s age and I always felt like I was the burden and was the thing that needed to be fixed, especially when I was going to all those eye hospital appointments. So, yeah, Ella for me is that kind of representation that I want, and then the world around her plunges into darkness. We’ve got this god of old that hates humanity and means to curse us. Animals can still see though, so Miss Maisie, her guide dog can still see. And basically Ella, her best friend Finn, her sister Poppy and Maisie go on these missions to try and get the world to have light again. And we see this inner turmoil of Ella really caring for her friends and family, leading the way, being really independent, strong, resilient; all of these things that I feel us blindies are [laughs].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Absolutely. Well, it’s nice to flip the script and have the blind person be in control. You wrote it with a co-author, Katy Birchall, what was that process like of writing?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, so cool. I’ve had this story in my head for, like, ten years. I’ve always wanted to write about the world going dark and there being a blind protagonist; it was just how I would do it. So, first of all before I even spoke to Katie I had this massive Trello board with loads of different words, imagery. So, I had a section where it was, like, colours are feelings, and then I wrote down what red meant to me, what yellow meant to me. We’d basically have loads and loads of calls where she’d bed out the story and be like, ‘Luce, maybe we need to write X here or Y here’ and as we’d write every chapter together there’d be different details about, like, so I would write all the bits where Ella had those really independent thoughts about blindness and really bedding out her character, and having these workshops almost on Zoom where I’d be like, well I want Ella to think and feel like this. I was almost talking to Ella, it sounds a bit weird, but I wanted her to be an actual human in my head before we even started. Yeah, it was a lot of calls. I know Katy really well now, and she knows so much about guide dogs and so much about blindness [laughs], so it’s really lovely.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Because you have weaved in a lot of blind stuff, so the screen reading software that helps us read what’s on our computer screens and our phones, and you’ve woven in braille. What was your favourite blindiness thing that you wove into the book?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think I loved talking a lot about the role of guide dogs. And a lot of the time I kept saying to Katy, ‘People think that guide dogs are satnavs’. But also the relationship between Ella and Maisie, the little grunts that are based on Miss Molly, my own guide dog. I just loved that a dog is such an opener in talking to new people for the first time.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And it’s quite interesting because when you’re a blind person, and I’d imagine particularly a newly blind young person, connecting with new people is probably quite tricky, and a dog is a good way in to that.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Absolutely.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And you’ve also been recently announced as an RNIB, Royal National Institute of Blind People ambassador. What is that and what does it involve?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Last year we obviously had our election, and I did quite a few bits of content about voting, how people can’t vote if you’re totally blind, not truly independently where you wouldn’t be able to do the start to finish yourself really. So, it was about advocating for that. And I thought oh, I’d love to work with the RNIB more in highlighting that cause. For me, as well as doing that, I was the way to actually a meeting and there was loads of street clutter and loads of lying bikes just in the way and I couldn’t cross the road with Miss Molly either.

[Clip]

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Can you not get past, gorgeous? I’m blind and I’m currently in central London with my gorgeous Miss Molly, the guide dog. And as you can just now, I’ve just crossed the road, I can’t actually get by. There’s lying bikes all over the pavement Ollie’s just told me. So, I’m going to have to try and feel with my hands to see if I can go past. But this is so bad, guys. Come on Molls, try and find the way, gorgeous.

OLLIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý She’s taking you back to the kerb.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, she’ll default to the kerb. Are you defaulting to the kerb, gorgeous? Yes, you are. I don’t think she thinks we can get by together. Okay, I’m going to have to take the reins. This is when I have to feel. She’s taking me to the kerb again. I don’t think even with the best feeling in the world that there’s any room for us to get by. That is so bad. But look at all of the bikes.

[End of clip]

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, those two videos were really successful, and then RNIB were saying to me they have different campaigns. And I was just like I feel like I’ve been doing social media for so, so long and it’s been amazing, but I think now there are issues that we really just have to drill down to. And I think working in tandem with the RNIB is just such a privilege in that they have a massive voice and I just think we’re stronger together.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I would imagine they’re pretty pleased to have you as well. But I know what you mean, getting in with the people who understand all the policy and to have links in with parliament and stuff like that is a good thing. I bet you’ve been asked before though?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You know what, it’s not a conversation. I’ve obviously worked with the RNIB, like, social team and stuff before, but it’s never been a specific convo. I actually approached them and I was like, I’d love to do it.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý They bit your hand off.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, [laughter] bless them.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, it’s the 200th anniversary of braille over this year, and everybody knows I’m, like, a braille evangelist. What I’ve noticed on your socials is that braille has become a bigger part of your life over the last year or two.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. I’ve learnt braille. I remember begrudgingly learning it at school, because we had a visual impairment unit on my state school, and my braille teacher and I was like, ‘Oh my god, miss, this is so uncool’. So, I did learn it when I was younger, but I’ve always been really rusty. Like, I can never read it for scripts or anything. So, especially in the pandemic at reading I would do it over and over again. So, I think for me braille is amazing around the house, labelling more things, and also screen readers are kind of the be all and end all maybe for people almost to say our community is okay if we just have a screen reader, when actually that’s not the case. I felt really passionate about putting it even just on the front of Ella Jones vs The Sun Stealer, and even though it’s like a sighted thing almost, it’s like an advocacy thing.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Blind people smell everything, we smell and feel everything, particularly food which you can’t really feel all the time because it can be sloppy. So, you’re in the fridge opening the Tupperware and giving it a sniff, if you’re like me and are chaotic and haven’t brailled anything. I saw a video you did recently about using braille to help you batch cook. And even after watching the video I didn’t really understand your method. And obviously I’m always trying to be a better person, and anyone my age and in my situation part of being a better person is batch cooking for the week.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, I need to know your method.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, honestly I really try to batch cook [laughs]. I kind of got in it in January. January is really quiet for me.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, you started to batch cook.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I did.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And you used magnets?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, so I just bought these magnets and then I stuck braille on them, and then I did one, two, three, four and put them on this magnet board, stuck it all, and then corresponding I have braille one, two, three, four on these little tags almost. And I bought these silicon bags and basically it corresponds to my magnet board. And I’m very proud of myself because there’s loads of different magnets with all sorts, like lasagne, curry or whatever, and I just stick it next to the one. And then the corresponding one in the freezer is like the curry that’s there.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh okay, I get it now. This is genius.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you. Honestly, I took ages doing it so yeah, I’m really happy with myself [laughs].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, next January maybe I’ll give it a try.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There you go. Love it [laughter].

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Listen, a little bit of a step change, Lucy, because something else you’ve been talking about a lot on social media and have been really open about is trying to conceive, and losing weight for IVF.

[Clip]

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Running] I’m blind and I’m on a fitness journey because I’m losing weight for IVF. And this is how me and my husband run, we have a tether.

OLLIE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, like this.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And we’ve just done the furthest we’ve ever done. We’re just running, we haven’t stopped. I’m so excited, guys, I’ve got 9kg to go until my BMI’s 30, so then I qualify for NHS IVF. I’m so excited.

[End of clip]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Is it okay to ask you about that journey from wanting to have a baby and through to now and what’s happening there for you?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, totally. I think yeah, I’m so happy to be. So, basically I have a really rare genetic condition, it’s called incontinentia pigmenti, that’s how I lost my eyesight. And it runs through the female line of my genes, so my mum actually has IP although isn’t blind, and my late grandma also had IP and her sister actually is blind in one eye I think. Anyway, it culminated within myself that I am totally blind from it. But if I was male I wouldn’t have actually survived with IP because it's on the X chromosome and obviously women have two Xs – my limited knowledge [laughs] – and males have XY, so obviously if the X is affected then the male miscarries. And my grandma actually had nine miscarriages. So, I think it’s just number one, I don’t want to put my body through that if in today’s society we can have IVF. And I think the other thing is that this condition not only causes blindness but it can cause epilepsy, it can cause so many different things, I guess I just don’t know what the future holds. And also I think for me, just as a body thing, I’m just glad that we’ve got IVF. So, yeah I qualify for IVF on the NHS, three rounds. But apparently once you have one round and if that’s successful then the other two go away, so basically I qualify to have one baby, which is lovely. But that just means I need to be a BMI of 30, and I’m very open in that I need to lose 9kg. I’ve already lost 15 so I’m very happy.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wow!

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wow, that’s loads, you’ve lost loads!

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m so excited, I know. I’m really happy about it. In the most positive, like, I wanted a really positive representation of losing weight online because it’s all about this blinking jab and weight loss and all these horrible things, and I just wanted to lose it healthily, have lots of nice food, apples – I’m vegetarian – talk about meal prep and just smile, and run [laughs].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And can I go back to a couple of things you said there? Because I can’t not really. First of all about choosing to have IVF instead of going naturally due to the condition that you’ve got, have you had any pushback from anyone in conversations about that?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Difficult convos yeah. I mean, it’s such a personal decision, and I think I know that I’m opening myself up for a possible like, designer baby discussion, when even talking about this. But I think there’s extremes to that in that I know I’m doing it for the right reasons to preserve my body and not go through that miscarriage if I don’t have to. I mean, I might still have a miscarriage, we don’t know what the future holds. But I think by opening up this it’s for me a positive way to talk about that issue in that people these days with IVF can go too far in understanding let’s remove this, or remove with all these different conditions. I don’t know how far is too far, and I think opening up that discussion is a good thing. But no, I have not yet had backlash.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, what will they do?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, in a couple of months I’ll be like, hi, I’m the right weight. Maybe it’s a bit longer than that actually, but yeah. And then my consultant will say hello, you need to come in with your mum and you need to spit in a cup. I’m like, okay, cool, we’ll do that. So, me and mum are going to go in because we both have IP, and then they make a bespoke test to find the gene within my eggs. So, they’ll take three months to do that, and while that’s happening I am giving myself these trigger shots to stimulate my follicles and produce lots of eggs and then what they’ll do is they’ll get those eggs out of me via a procedure, and then they will freeze the eggs for two months while they wait for the test. And then as they go to unfreeze my eggs I think they’re going to make them into embryos first with myself and Ollie, and then they will test them with this like little tool thing; which again I sound very novice in talking about this, but that’s my understanding thus far [laughs].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, you’re a few months out from it so you’ll know everything about it when it comes to it.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That sounds so interesting. I don’t think you thought I was going to ask you that question today.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No [laughs].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Sorry. It’s just if they didn’t remove the gene at all, if you just had a baby naturally how likely would it be that the kid would have it?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý 50%.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, only a girl would survive?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, only a girl. So, there’s four chances: first chance would be unaffected girl; second chance, unaffected boy; third chance, affected girl – that sounds horrible doesn’t it, that’s me [laughter]; fourth chance, affected boy – and most likely the affected boy would miscarry or be severely brain damaged.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay, so they take out the embryos that have the gene, and then once they’ve done that you’ve still got a 50/50 chance?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, 50/50, down the middle. And I don’t know whether there’s going to be a boy or a girl, and it’ll be very cool. And I’m excited and I’m very broody, Em.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s fascinating.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. I actually did a podcast episode on my channel with Ollie, my husband, about the whole decision of me thinking about IVF and understanding that it is removing that part of me that makes me me, and having this whole, like, oh am I removing a part of myself. I love being blind and I’m so positive. When I have conversations to, I guess, maybe more the older generation who grew up in a very, very different world, I think being blind, I’m very proud to say that I love it because it’s taken me a long time to be able to say that. Maybe because I’m so disability positive people don’t necessarily go, oh well why would you want a blind baby. I think when my videos go more viral, so I did a video when I was in a tactile museum in Japan of feeling different embryos, there was a lot of people there who don’t necessarily know me, I get a lot of abusive comments that go into my spam filter questioning why I would be a mother. I know that I’m going to get a lot of abuse but I’m just going to block them. I’m going to be okay, Em. All I think about is you and other mothers that have come before me who are component, capable and resilient, and all these people can get in the bin [laughs].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’ve been broody for a while, bless you. It’s been a journey.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It has, I’ve just needed to lose weight. And to be honest, I’m very ready to be healthy and happy. I’ve run round the track so many times in my local area, and I can now run 25 minutes straight, and I’m so happy with my little self.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You wear a t-shirt with Blind on the back. Do you think I should wear one of those?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, you know what, I’ve struggled with that over the years. The amount of people who go, oh my gosh, hi, you’re blind. But I love it on park run now because people get to know you, and also they move out the way, because without that they don’t see the tether between me and my husband and I have tripped over. So, I kind of like it. It’s like another cane for me. And being fluorescent, having the word blind it’s, yeah, it’s a part of me. It’s not the only part of me, but I don’t care at this point. I am what I am.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Why do you love being blind?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think it’s given me a voice that I wouldn’t have otherwise necessarily had. It’s given me a perspective of the world that I wouldn’t have had. I understand myself even more. I have better relationships with the people around me, that I don’t know whether I would have delved into different communication styles with my husband. My husband’s sighted, I’m blind, so we have to be very, very understanding with each other’s world view because it’s obviously very different. Also being very loyal to a lovely mobility aid, having that relationship, I never would have known what it’s like to be with a guide dog. So many things.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s so lovely. I mean, something you understand and I don’t really as a blind person is beauty and fashion. We’ve had this conversation loads of times. I suppose I want a totally pure indulgence question: any recent beauty of fashion blindy hack that you’ve discovered that you would like to share with poor old me?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, what I would say, Em, is that I think the beauty and fashion world has shut us out, so it’s not your fault that we aren’t able to participate. The only reason I know how to do my face is because I’m very, very lucky and I’ve got a sister who is literally 15 months younger than me, and she’s willing to sit next to me when I’m like, ‘Alice please! Please let me Facetime you’. And I think blindy tip: holding the mascara wand on a stable surface; this is what I’ve been doing. I actually poked my eye yesterday, and I was just a bit like, right I need to stop using these really long, faffy mascaras. I have basically banned them from my make-up bag. Now I’m literally just purely using travel size, which I always preach anyway, but it’s just about the depth perception nearer me. And I keep using, there’s like a silicon stencil now that you can hold up to your eye that I’ve seen recently. But I am creating a make-up brand so we won’t have this problem soon [laughs].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, you’re creating a make-up brand?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Etia, E-T-I-A, which derives from the word Lampetia, which is the goddess of light. So, it’s all about your inner self and feeling beautiful just the way you are.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That is a very cleverly thought through name.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you, Em.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well done, super-duper. What products? What tools? What’s happening? When?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I can’t reveal loads, but we want a spring launch next year. And I want it to be accessible for everybody. I am very excited. I got funding from Estée Lauder and TikTok last year. We went to Paris in the final rounds. It was fully Dragons Den, in front of 20 judges. I was so scared. We got some funding, although I am now learning that it’s a drop in the ocean for what make-up brands need. But there we go, it’s very, very, very, very grateful and gratefully received, and it’s a start. And I’ve now hired my first employee who is the ex-head of packaging at L’Oréal and he’s amazing. I’m just absorbing everything in his brain. And yeah, we’re just really excited. I want it to be modular, I want it to be tactile, I want it to be all the things, and we’re very excited.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Modular, what does that mean, so one eye shadow clicked into another? Or what’s modular?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Maybe [laughter]. I don’t want to reveal too much.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý If you could create one accessible make-up product or tool what would it be?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I want it to be eyes first, that’s what I’ll give you. Because that’s how, like, how does a blind girl do her make-up, the most comments were about my eyeliner and my eyes and just eyes in general as a thing, so that’s what we’re starting with, something for the eyes.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, I feel like if I keep asking you questions you’ll keep bending [laughter], but I think that’s brilliant.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, no more.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What is next for you, Lucy Edwards-Cave?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Ooh, so we’ve got my second book, Ella Jones vs Her Next Adventure in October, published by Scholastic.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What! Already?

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I know! It’s literally almost written now. I’ve just had a draft in, and Katy emailed me the other day, so I’m so excited. So, yeah there’s that.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Ah, listen, Ella Jones vs The Sun Stealer is out now in all good bookshops/downloadable book areas. And it’s been an absolute pleasure to talk to you, Lucy Edwards.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thanks, Em.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you for spending the time with me.

LUCY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thanks, Em, always a pleasure with you too, love.

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