麻豆社

10th December 2025

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� Ep 190

Presented by Emma Tracey

EMMA- Hello, I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and this is Access All. One of the most passionate disability activists I have met in my 20 years of reporting on disability is Mat Fraser. He was one of the children affected by thalidomide in the 1960s and he has short arms as a result. He embraced his difference and bought into disability history, being involved in modern freak shows, acting in big American TV series, and then even presenting this very podcast back in the day with Liz Carr. Later Mat and I will talk about a new disability archive project. But here鈥檚 how our conversation started:

MAT- Well, at the moment I鈥檓 getting over a condition called IT band syndrome.

EMMA- What鈥檚 that?

MAT- Well, the IT band runs from the outside of the hip to the outside of the knee and joins in at a big gristle junction at the hip, as I call it, where the piriformis, gluteus maximus and the TFL all join.

EMMA- [Laughs]

MAT- And if, like myself, you have been a sporty chap for most of your life and then suddenly had both hips replaced [laughs] and are now a little bit different physically it manifests in weird pains. It鈥檚 been quite debilitating. So, I鈥檝e experienced something that some of my disabled friends have that I鈥檝e never had which is constant pain all the time for the last three weeks. I鈥檓 okay now. And it鈥檚 crazy how it changes you, Emma.

EMMA- How does it change you, Mat Fraser?

MAT- It turns me into Mr Grumpy from Grumpington.

EMMA- Oh [laughs]. And I just think this is interesting to talk about because you鈥檝e got short arms and you are very sporty as well you really gave your hips, you put them through it, didn鈥檛 you?

MAT- Well, I certainly earnt my new hips. I wore out the old ones, compensating for the lack of reach that I have with my arms, so picking teacups up with my toes while I鈥檓 doing the washing up and bringing it into the sink with my foot, if you can imagine that. It鈥檚 a lot of hip and knee action going on there. So, yeah, had both of them replaced and things are different now.

EMMA- Can you still do that with the cups?

MAT- I can. What my surgeon told me was to stop doing the martial arts.

EMMA- Ah.

MAT- He said you can go straight back to full contact martial arts and I鈥檒l see you again in ten years, or you can give that up, start yoga, and it鈥檒l be 25 years before I need to see you again. So, I took his advice. How about you, how鈥檚 the old physicals with you?

EMMA- All good, Mat. Same, still blind.

MAT- What!

EMMA- Yeah, I know.

More of that conversation later on. But now let鈥檚 dive in to the rest of the show.

MUSIC- Theme music.

EMMA- Yes, I am Emma Tracey. This is Access All, the disability and mental health podcast from 麻豆社 News. Please do subscribe to us, if you haven鈥檛 already done so, you can hit that big subscribe button on 麻豆社 Sounds if you鈥檙e in the UK, and for the rest of the world you can find us wherever you get your podcasts. Please do get in touch with us, we love to hear from you. You can send us a voice message or a text message to our WhatsApp 0330 123 9480. Or you can email accessall@bbc.co.uk. Do stick around to the end of this episode because I do have a little bit of news to share. But of course you鈥檒l stick around, we鈥檝e got the bold Mat Fraser in a few minutes, and we鈥檒l also be talking about football for all you big soccer fans out there.

But first, it was the year that saw the end of the Vietnam war, Jaws was in cinemas, and 1975 was also the year that the Disability Law Service officially launched, which means it just celebrated its 50th anniversary. The CEO of the

Disability Law Service and a lawyer himself, Andrew McKay, is with me to tell me more. Hi, Andrew.

ANDREW- Hello.

EMMA- What is the Disability Law Service?

ANDREW- The Disability Law Service, DLS, is a really exciting charity and its vision is to provide free legal, social welfare and professional advice to deaf and disabled people and their families and their carers. Our services are always free, and that鈥檚 really important because deaf and disabled people disproportionately make up a higher percentage of people in poverty. And we do have some legal aid funding. The levels have dropped over the years and it鈥檚 very difficult to cover costs on legal aid alone, so we鈥檙e very grateful for law firms and trusts and foundations that have also provided some funding for us.

EMMA- Now, when we think of law we think of being in court, but your work is a bit broader than that.

ANDREW- Yeah, absolutely. People do think of lawyers as being the people that turn up in suits and argue in court, but actually we on a day-to-day basis work with clients who are facing real struggles with getting adequate housing, or people who are struggling with community care, who have struggled with discrimination in the workplace. The big difference that it makes in people鈥檚 lives is having people who have experience and compassion and understanding coming alongside them and just simply helping them understand what their rights are, secure what they need and help them through the process of resolving the issues that they have.

EMMA- Now, tell me about some of the Disability Law Service鈥檚 most impactful and proud cases?

ANDREW- Well, let me share one story. Amy was born with quadriplegic cerebral palsy, she was a wheelchair user, she had impairments with hearing and speech, incontinence, dysphasia and learning difficulties. And she was in a council house with two bedrooms with her mum, stepdad and two twins. She didn鈥檛 have enough space to be able to live with dignity. And for over ten years her family had struggled with the local council to get access to appropriate housing. They were then directed to DLS and we were able to engage the council, and within a couple of years they were then able to

be moved out into a far more appropriate housing for Amy and for her wider family. And it鈥檚 those kinds of examples of what might feel insignificant, but having your needs met is so deeply important.

EMMA- Because you鈥檝e been to the European Court of Human Rights, haven鈥檛 you?

ANDREW- That鈥檚 right. In 2014 Liz McDonald, who was our client, she had had her nighttime care taken away and was left with incontinence pads instead. And the argument that we put to the council and then through the courts was that that impacted on her dignity and her human rights. And the judgement recognised that local councils do have discretion to make decisions about their budget, but it made it really clear that local authorities, governments need to take into account the human rights and the dignity of disabled people in the decisions that they make.

EMMA- You must get more queries than you can manage, do you?

ANDREW- That鈥檚 the unfortunate thing about where we are right now: the demand for our services is skyrocketing with the political climate, with the changes to the welfare system, the cost of living crisis. There is an awful lot of need, and far more than we鈥檙e able to meet. So, we do our best. We will if possible give advice and assistance on a phone call or by email to try and resolve issues. And if necessary we will bring them on as clients and try and work with them.

EMMA- It鈥檚 so interesting hearing about those cases, and very interested that you鈥檝e been going for 50 years. How did the Disability Law Service start?

ANDREW- DLS began as part of a group of families with disabled people who had been struggling to get access to their rights, to get access to appropriate education. And they came together, they met each other and recognised that there was a need for supporting each other and formed a charity called Kith & Kids. A number of them were lawyers, so they set up what became the Disability Law Service.

EMMA- And what kinds of things are you seeing?

ANDREW- The proposed changes to the benefits regime, the changes that have been put in place and may still be put in place have been very unsettling to many people trying to understand what the impact is on their day-to-day life. The changes to

Access to Work and indeed the increasing delays with being able to access the government system to enable鈥�

EMMA- So, that鈥檚 the scheme where disabled people get some extra costs covered of being disabled and in a job.

ANDREW- Exactly. And we鈥檝e seen that, not just with our clients, but also internally because we are a deaf and disabled people鈥檚 organisation so over 90% of our board have lived experience, and 90% of our staff team have lived experience. But that also brings with it the reality of having to navigate Access to Work and the complex bureaucracy can be very off-putting and very difficult for people with disabilities to navigate. And we are a team of lawyers and we find it tricky.

EMMA- You had a case, didn鈥檛 you, in the last few years with an autistic client who needed support and wasn鈥檛 getting it?

ANDREW- That鈥檚 right. One of the things that we have prided ourselves on I think over the years is being able to recognise where there are themes coming through. So, one of our lawyers, Pria, had increasingly been working with families with children with autism and had noticed a pattern where families were struggling to get the care that they needed from their local authorities for their autistic children unless they were able to show additional disabilities. We then worked with an international law firm to undertake a research project which showed that 91% of local authorities in England and Wales were failing to meet their duties of equality. And we were then able to work with the 麻豆社 at the time to highlight that case and to secure promises from those local authorities that they would either review their policies or update them to bring them into compliance with the law.

EMMA- Andrew, you have ADHD, tell me about how you became involved with the Disability Law Service?

ANDREW- As somebody who鈥檚 had a relatively late life diagnosis it鈥檚 been really profound. I navigated my way through school and university and various workplaces and always struggled and always felt a bit broken. And in getting that diagnosis it was liberating to realise that I wasn鈥檛 broken; my brain was built differently. And it really helped me.

EMMA- There will be people in university who have ADHD or think they might have ADHD and are studying law and thinking how am I going to become a lawyer. Because law when we

think of it we think of deadlines and we think of quite narrow ways of doing things. What strategies have you got?

ANDREW- I look back at my university career and my first couple of years I really struggled because I struggled with independent learning and with meeting deadlines, and didn鈥檛 do very well. And then one of the aspects of ADHD is hyperfocus, and moved from a pattern of failure to doing excellently and finished third in my year with one of the highest marks that one of my professors had ever given out.

EMMA- Because it became a hyperfocus for you?

ANDREW- Exactly.

EMMA- Oh my goodness. Was that just luck do you think that your brain just clicked over into that?

ANDREW- It just did. And that鈥檚 been a pattern in my working life. But now that I understand more about myself I鈥檝e started to be able to identify tools that have been helpful for me.

EMMA- Like what?

ANDREW- One thing I really enjoy using is something called Brain.fm, which is an ADHD music tool which gives just enough musical stimulation but without being distracting, which is really helpful for settling and focusing. I feel that I do really well when I鈥檓 able to be in a dynamic situation. I鈥檓 very good at crisis management. I sometimes struggle with the mundane email and admin, and so that helps.

EMMA- And you鈥檝e actually made a difference to the people that you work with as well as for. DLS has trained some people up?

ANDREW- That鈥檚 right. One of the things that we鈥檙e most proud about has been the longstanding team that we have. We have a history of bringing people on as volunteers, enabling them to become paralegals and then trainee lawyers, and then qualified lawyers, and then continuing to train them up. I鈥檓 really proud of the fact that we鈥檙e bringing people through their legal journey as deaf and disabled people. And it makes a difference because having the lived experience in whatever flavour makes a difference; it allows you to approach a client with compassion and with understanding.

EMMA- Fantastic. Andrew, tell us where to find Disability Law Service.

ANDREW- So, we have a website that sets out all of the ways that we can help deaf and disabled people dls.org.uk. We鈥檙e also on social media, on Facebook, on Police Guy.

EMMA- Andrew, here鈥檚 to 50 more years of the Disability Law Service, and maybe I can talk to you again on the centenary.

ANDREW- That would be lovely [laughs].

EMMA- Let me take you back to a couple of weeks ago when I spoke to former 麻豆社 News editor, Mark Mardell. He had found himself in a difficult situation with Turkish Airlines as a passenger with Parkinson鈥檚.

[Clip]

MARK- They came back and said, 鈥榊ou need a letter to fly鈥�. We assumed that meant to prove that I did have Parkinson鈥檚, which seemed a bit strange. But no, it was actually because it鈥檚 the one condition they ban from flying without a letter.

[End of clip]

EMMA- Now, I did ask Turkish Airlines for a statement before the interview but it didn鈥檛 arrive in time for the recording. The other day though one popped into my email, and Turkish Airlines seemed pretty apologetic about the whole thing. They have now removed the need for a fit to fly letter for passengers with Parkinson鈥檚. And Mark Mardell, you fought doggedly to make that happen, and fair play to you.

Clarence emailed us to thank us for the podcast, and we really appreciated your message, Clarence. Clarence loves it so much that they鈥檝e gone back to the beginning and they鈥檙e currently at 2019. Lots and lots and lots of episodes to go on that feed for you, Clarence. And you know, you could also go back to the beginning if you wanted to. You have endless disability news and interviews to listen to on the Access All feed. Clarence has mental health difficulties and says that our inclusion of mental health in the podcast helps them feel like they鈥檙e part of a community and that that鈥檚 neat. Yes, I think so too. Clarence hopes we go on forever. Thanks for your support, Clarence.

Now, remember last week we talked a lot about IDPD, International Day of Persons with Disabilities or Disabled People Day, Disability Day, whatever you want to call it. And we thought it was cause for celebration. Now, someone else who thought the same was Dave Buxton, the CEO of

Action on Disability which is based in Hammersmith and Fulham in London, and they threw a party. They had 70 guests, they watched four disability led short films, disabled actors performed a Christmas carol, and they had some music to end. Oh my goodness, I love that, a disability party. Myself and Dr Shani Dhanda were saying last week that there should be one in the summer and one in December. Let鈥檚 keep that idea going, lads.

MUSIC- We鈥檙e not just a podcast. Find Access All on social media and read our articles on the 麻豆社 News website.

EMMA- Now, you heard him at the start. Let鈥檚 jump right back in to my interview with Mat Fraser and talk about Disability Arts Online new archive project. Here we go:

One of your big passions is disability arts. And the national organisation, Disability Arts Online are asking people to share their experiences of disability arts before they lose it, they say. So, what is disability arts and why is it thought it might die out if something is not done?

MAT- Well, disability arts as I understand it is artistic practice by disabled people that speaks in some way of their disabled experience, which we understand through the social model of disability.

EMMA- Okay, we鈥檙e going to have to just roll back a wee bit. So, without getting ourselves tied up too much in knots, quick lesson.

MAT- Oh, you mean a model, okay. Medical model: I鈥檓 a chap with short arms as a result of my mum taking thalidomide. The medical model would say that I am the problem and that I need aids to make me be more normal. The charity model would say, oh this poor guy isn鈥檛 normal, we鈥檝e got to give him some money to buy those aids to make him normal. The social model says no, society needs to become more adaptive and accepting of people different like him, and we need to provide physical and attitudinal access to make, render him an equal. And so as disability artists who perform and write and paint and create music and visual stuff we speak of these experiences in our work, and that鈥檚 what disability arts is. Why is it important? Well, I鈥檓 very mindful of the fact that Graeae Eye Theatre Company, the first all disabled led theatre company in Europe that started in 1981 recently lost our founding member, Nabil Shaban. Now, he鈥檚 a legend of

disability arts in theatre. And for the last three or four years I鈥檇 been thinking somebody should interview him about his life鈥檚 work, and now it鈥檚 too late because he died. It鈥檚 a really poignant example of why it鈥檚 important to have a disability arts archive and to have it celebrated and talked about, because if we keep losing these founding fathers and mothers of disability arts we鈥檙e not going to have the proper stories of the people who were there at the time.

EMMA- And of course, as we know from hanging out with lots of disabled people, sometimes disabled people have shorter lives and die of different things and die suddenly. You don鈥檛 want to lose any more of those stories. So, the organisation Disability Arts Online have managed to get a quarter of a million pounds from the National Lottery Heritage Fund to create an archive which will be online. What are they going to be collecting? And how are they going to do it? And from whom are they going to do it?

MAT- Well, it鈥檚 a three-year project starting next year. Its main project aims I鈥檇 say will be safe storage and heritage of disability arts movement, from being lost, fill in the gaps that we have of existing knowledge, share the stories in a digital archive that鈥檚 interactive timeline and a podcast series so that people can access this information and history in their own time, in their own way. And also to support the development of a culture that embraces disabled people鈥檚 stories.

EMMA- Are they collecting songs, pictures?

MAT- Yes, everything, songs, anecdotes, pictures, posters, collections. I just found a ticket for a Crip Arts gig 鈥� sorry, crip, cripping, like queering is the use of a reclaimed word to apply a disability lens to culture.

EMMA- The project that has the word crip in it as well?

MAT- Yes, that鈥檚 right. And so in the olden days of the 鈥�90s we would go on a demonstration because there was no accessible public transport, there was no accessible this, that and the other, and then in the evening we would do a crip cabaret with invariably Johnny Crescendo, Ian Stanton, all these oldsters of the 鈥�90s disability cabaret scene were the crips who were making the songs. The crips who made the crips, if you will, that became the chants, that became the slogans. It was all very much part of a wonderful burgeoning culture where we felt liberated. And it鈥檚 really important that this

liberation is kept as an archive and there鈥檚 stories of it. I mean, thankfully I don鈥檛 believe I鈥檓 going to die any time soon [knock knock], knock on wood.

EMMA- [Laughs] that鈥檚 good, you can see this project through, Mat Fraser. That鈥檚 excellent news.

MAT- Yeah. You know, only the other day I got a new cupboard so I had to get all my old bits out and put it back in the cupboard, and I saw all these scrapbooks of the crip cabarets we鈥檇 done all through the 鈥�90s. There鈥檚 reams of stuff that I鈥檝e got, and I鈥檓 actually going to donate it to the archive.

EMMA- So, one of the things you said there is a lot of those cabarets created some of the slogans for disability rights activism. What would you say now, Mat Fraser, was your favourite slogan that you came up with?

MAT- I think Rights Not Charity.

EMMA- Oh, that was not what I was expecting actually. I was expecting Piss On Pity.

MAT- Piss On Pity was of course one of my favourites.

EMMA- That slogan has lasted the test of time.

MAT- Absolutely.

EMMA- You got into Disability Arts when you became politicised you always say. Tell me about that.

MAT- Well, there I was not understanding why I was so angry politically. I went on the Free Nelson Mandela march, I went on the CND march, I went on the Women鈥檚 Rights to Control Their Wombs, Abortion march, all those marches. And then my friend, who was a radical Marxist feminist, Mika, my surrogate mother, took me on a Disability Rights march. And I went with her because if she went on a march it meant it was a good march. Then I saw my people. Now, of course I didn鈥檛 realise she鈥檇 thought to herself, this chap needs to get in touch with his people, and that鈥檚 what happened. And I went on my first Rights Now march and I never looked back; I鈥檇 found my tribe: disabled people who were angry at the way we were treated by society as lesser, and wanting to do something about it using the methodology that I鈥檇 grown up to love, which was pounding the streets, having a poster and shouting slogans.

EMMA- And using disability arts for that as well?MAT- That鈥檚 right. I鈥檝e got footage on my old video A camera, which I haven鈥檛 converted to a digital file yet, at the end of a cabaret in Edinburgh singing Proud, Angry and Strong. [Singing] Proud, Angry and Strong was one of the thematic chants of that movement. But let鈥檚 get back to the disability arts.

EMMA- [Laughs] has disability arts changed a lot?

MAT- I think it has. I think it鈥檚 become more鈥�well, it鈥檚 the same with acting. Back in those days disabled actors had had no training and had just decided to do acting. Nowadays if you鈥檙e a disabled actor you鈥檝e been to drama school and it鈥檚 all proper. And it鈥檚 the same with disability arts, I think there鈥檚 a lot more accomplished artistry going on. But at the same time we reject that notion of proper and not proper, like oh, if you went to the Royal Academy it鈥檚 proper, but if you didn鈥檛 then it鈥檚 not. And we don鈥檛 want it to be physically or attitudinally gatekeeping to our disability arts.

EMMA- But is it less activisty than it used to be?

MAT- Maybe. Yeah, I think in general it鈥檚 become slightly more about the so-called 鈥渜uality鈥� of the art, rather than the message. Although both are equally important and both intertwine inexorably within any piece.

EMMA- Do you still practice disability arts would you say? Because you鈥檝e been in a lot of mainstream stuff now.

MAT- I do. When I鈥檓 acting, the last thing I was in I was the music shop owner that was really a gun seller in Gangs Of London, and I got shot at the end of the scene and that was that. That really didn鈥檛 have much to do with disability arts, except people watching would go oh right, I suppose a disabled person could sell guns, [laughs] or whatever it might be.

EMMA- Yeah, you鈥檙e still fighting the good fight, like [laughs].

MAT- My own work does go further than that and is always disability arts. The last three things I鈥檝e done have been pantos over in America. And very important to me is to embed disabled people in status roles where they鈥檙e fun and talk to the audience. So, everything I do is disability arts by its very nature, and things I write. I mean, I don鈥檛 write a story unless it鈥檚 got a disabled character in it or a situation to do with social disability. But I鈥檓 63 now.

EMMA- What? No, you couldn鈥檛 be! Impossible.

MAT- [Laughs] well, thank you, very kind of you, but I am. And that鈥檚 okay. I鈥檓 the same age as Obama. What I wanted to say is we need younger people鈥檚 stories, so this is a call to action for the public. I鈥檓 going to use this platform of talking to you to say to listeners out there if you have a connection to the movement and you would like to share your story please register interest. Those details will come up at the end of the programme as well. But it鈥檚 really important that we hear from you, not just the same old seven people that it was.

EMMA- What if there aren鈥檛 enough stories, Mat? Do disabled people have it better now? Are there less angry people connecting or are they just doing it in a different way?

MAT- I think they possibly are doing it in a different way. But maybe the message is the same: there鈥檚 a disenfranchisement around disabled people; younger disabled people of the Gen Z persuasion might not be feeling as supported by the government as perhaps they might do and they might want to do artwork about it. Disability arts can be very politicised, and sometimes if the only way to get out your political and social angst is to create a piece of art then create it, because it helps speak about the experience to other people, it helps you deal with the experience yourself. It鈥檚 a lot of things disability arts, and we want all of the stories and the versions of what it can be to be brought in to this archive. But you also get younger disabled kids who haven鈥檛 been through that grist and that mill who find what they鈥檙e doing is just natural disability arts from their own perspective. And I think that stuff is really, really valuable too.

EMMA- They can do it themselves, like you guys did with your cabarets, they鈥檙e making their content online. They can鈥檛 maybe get on television, they struggle to work full time in the industry, but they鈥檙e doing what you did in a way and grassroots and making it themselves.

MAT- I know. It鈥檚 brilliant.

EMMA- Quickly, just as we finish, tell me a story.

MAT- Okay. I went for an audition for Judge Dread. This was the moment that made me realise I was disabled. I had read the magazine religiously and it was full of mutants in a sci-fi picture of a dystopian future. And I went to audition and the casting director said to me, 鈥榃e can鈥檛 give you a job in this as a mutant because you鈥檙e a real mutant鈥�.

EMMA- [Laughs]

MAT- And that blew my mind. And I ran crying to Kit Wells at the National Disability Arts Forum. He put his hand on my back and said, 鈥楾ell us all about it鈥� and I broke down in tears, and I told four other disabled people what had happened. And I never looked back. And from that moment I was a disability artist, I was protected, and I was encouraged.

EMMA- Brilliant. And Mat, for all these people who are listening, what can they go and watch you in?

MAT- I pop up here and there in the film for the 麻豆社 Then Barbara Met Alan. I鈥檓 not sure if it鈥檚 still on the 麻豆社 archives or on iPlayer but I curated and contributed to a series of disability monologues called Criptales in 2019.

EMMA- That was amazing.

MAT- So, I鈥檓 on a thing called Loudermilk and I play Roger, the English one. Funnily enough I got butt dialled 3 in the morning. I get called by Peter Farrelly, he wrote and directed Loudermilk, and for one split second I thought, I鈥檓 back! But no, it was a butt dial.

EMMA- [Laughs] Mat Fraser, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for talking to me and telling us about Disability Arts Online鈥檚 new internet archive.

MAT- Not at all, Emma. It鈥檚 always a pleasure. Lots of love for you and all the disabled people around the world.

EMMA- And the all-important web address to contribute to that archive project is disabilityarts.online/cripping/culture.

While the rest of us are easing ourselves into the festivities things are ramping up for one man. Neale Ormstead is about to be the first visually impaired person to commentate on a premier league soccer match. Neale, that鈥檚 exciting.

NEALE- Very. Anxious as well [laughs].

EMMA- Ah no, don鈥檛 be anxious. What match are you going to be commentating on?

NEALE- Crystal Palace versus Manchester City.

EMMA- I mean, you鈥檙e not starting small, are you? That is a big fixture. When is it?

NEALE- It鈥檚 Sunday, 2 o鈥檆lock kick-off.

EMMA- So, you have a few days to get ready. Who will hear your commentary, Neale?

NEALE- It鈥檒l be the people that will be using the audio sets for the game, so anyone that we have there that鈥檚 visually impaired, ADHD, things like that, they use them.

EMMA- So, it鈥檚 specialist commentary more detailed for blind and visually impaired people and other people who could benefit from it?

NEALE- Yes.

EMMA- Okay. Now, you鈥檙e visually impaired, Neale, how are you going to do this?

NEALE- Basically I鈥檝e been very lucky that I鈥檝e got a headset that鈥檚 been designed and done by a company called GiveVision. I trialled it with them just over two years ago now and I badgered Crystal Palace quite a bit, and eventually Crystal Palace have taken it up. And we now at Crystal Palace have the use of it every home game. And the first time that I trialled it I got a little bit teary because I saw my first goal for two and a half, three years and it was just amazing. So, this technology is fantastic.

EMMA- What can you see without the headset?

NEALE- Without the headset from where I sit I can just see to the edge of the pitch on my side. Once it goes past that into the goal box I can鈥檛 see; it鈥檚 all just blurred. And that鈥檚 just basically with my left eye; I can鈥檛 see anything with my right eye.

EMMA- So, tell me, how does this headset work then to help you see it more clearly?

NEALE- Obviously you have the two options on there: you can have the normal feed so that you鈥檙e just looking around as normal, or you go to a live stream which is basically the TV company, whoever is filming the game, you get what they鈥檙e showing to the people at home. And with the use of the little Nunchuk hand controller I can change the contrast, I can zoom in, zoom out, I can split between if I want normal camera feed, so if we鈥檝e scored a goal and I want to look over towards our other fans cheering, things like that, I can switch to that and then go back to the livestream.

EMMA- That鈥檚 great. But the good thing, it sounds like you can take this headset anywhere. Who can use it and where can they

use it? It sounds like it鈥檚 not restricted to Crystal Palace or to a football ground that has to install loads of stuff.

NEALE- Not at all. I鈥檝e trialled it at the Vaudeville Theatre in London with the show Six. I used it when we went to watch Devil Wears Prada.

EMMA- I like your choice in musicals, by the way.

NEALE- [Laughs] my wife鈥檚 more than anything. But it鈥檚 anything, you know, if there鈥檚 a boxing event, athletics, it鈥檚 been trialled and used at the Paralympics.

EMMA- So, tell me, let鈥檚 get back to this commentary on Sunday, how are you feeling about it?

NEALE- A little nervous and anxious, excited as well. It鈥檚 something completely new, never done it before, so it鈥檚 just a case of being me talking football, and just trying to make sure that what I鈥檓 seeing through the headset I鈥檓 transmitting that information to the people that are listening.

EMMA- Listen, good luck with it. I鈥檓 really excited to find out how you get on, and hope you enjoy yourself.

NEALE- Thank you so much. Thank you for the time.

EMMA- That鈥檚 it for another episode of Access All. Thanks to my guests, Andrew McKay, Mat Fraser and Neale Ormstead. And a particular thanks to you, our lovely listeners. You never fail to bring a smile to our face or a tear to our eye with your lovely, lovely messages. We can鈥檛 always broadcast every single one but we do read them all.

Just to give you a bit of notice, early in the year Access All will be going from weekly to monthly. Now, I鈥檒l still be here by your side with the best of disability news and interviews. And I鈥檒l also be popping up in other parts of the 麻豆社 reporting on disability and mental health. We鈥檝e still got three weekly episodes to go, and next week I鈥檓 very excited because it鈥檚 our quiz, and you can play along at home. See you then. Bye.