麻豆社

鈥淪ometimes we confuse activity with impact. And here I think the way we measure results should be different. How many lives has the UN saved? How many people has the UN helped to live out of poverty? How many people have we prevented from conflict? How many people were we able to support?鈥�

The 麻豆社鈥檚 Anne Soy speaks to Mar铆a Fernanda Espinosa, Ecuador鈥檚 former foreign minister and a candidate to become the first woman secretary general of the United Nations.

She is seeking the role at a time when the UN faces severe financial pressure, falling international aid budgets and questions about its influence over major conflicts.

Espinosa believes the organisation remains essential, but warns that it could become irrelevant unless it changes how it works. She describes the choice facing the UN as 鈥渞eform, transform or die鈥�.

The Interview brings you conversations with people shaping our world, from all over the world. The best interviews from the 麻豆社, including episodes with Russia鈥檚 nuclear envoy Mikhail Ulyanov and UNICEF chief Catherine Russell.

You can listen on the 麻豆社 World Service on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 0800 GMT. Or you can listen to The Interview as a podcast, out three times a week on 麻豆社 Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presenter: Anne Soy
Producer: Osman Iqbal, Sharon Hemands and Farhana Haider
Editor: Damon Rose

(Image: Mar铆a Fernanda Espinosa. Credit: Getty)