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You know there's something going wrong with prisons policy when the government decides to build four new prisons to expand prison capacity by 14,000 and yet it still expects to run out of space in a few years. The World At One's Sarah Montague has been speaking to prisons minister Lord Timpson about his approach since starting the role in July. He previously ran his family business Timpsons, where 1 in 10 employees were former inmates.